I recently acquired a Model 1905 4th Change in .38 S&W and would like to try handloading this old cartridge. I've been doing a lot of reading on it and some people pan its performance, others laud it. This will be used mostly for punching paper but I think it would be neat to recreate and improve on the old British "manstopper".

I plan to use new Starline brass and 200gr LRN bullets. Google reveals other sites referencing threads on this forum about this load but I tried the search and came up empty. I'd like to try pushing the load a little harder than it is normally accustomed to, a .38 S&W +P if you will. It stands to reason that the .38 Special chambered guns weren't built any differently than the ones in .38 S&W save the chamber and barrel dimensions, so the .38 S&W guns ought to be able to handle the same pressures as a .38 Special, no?

And before you say "Why not just shoot a .38 Special", that defeats the point of this exercise.

A 146gr LRN will get up to 700 fps with 2.5gr of Bullseye, and I've read 4.0gr of Unique will get it to 770 fps (though the poster had never loaded that high themselves). Not bad, starting to approach .38 Special ballistics. How far can one push this in a solid frame revolver before complications arise?

I'm also looking to work up a 38/200 load for my Webley MKIV. Where are you looking for bullets? If found some 200 gr 0.361" slugs from Matt's bullets. They are very nicely done, but slightly too long for the Webley's cylinder. So far, Matt's is the only option I've found for 200 gr slugs.

I'm not sure when that revolver was made but it may not have the proper heat treating or metal to withstand pressures equal to those generated by the .38 Special. I'm sure it's a grand old revolver so why take a chance on breaking it? (exercise or not)

I load a 38/200 round and I charge 2.4gr W231 and that's probably a little hot too. (for use in an Enfield No.2 though)

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158 gr. SWC, 3 grs. Unique, 5 in. barrel, 783 fps. I loaded 6 with 4 grs. of Unique and I didn't check the speed but they seemed pretty stout. Larry

The 1905 is at least 5 years after the introduction of the .38 Special. If it was made before 1920, it isn't heat treated and probably shouldn't be taken any further than 15,000 psi.

All of my M&P/1905s have high six digit serial numbers so they ought to be fairly new as far as Hand Ejectors go. I'll have to post them to find out for sure.

And yes I was planning to order from Matt's Bullets. I like that he has a section specifically for the .38 S&W!

What I'd really like to see is the 200gr pushed to 750 fps from a 4" barrel which I don't think is unreasonable in a solid framed gun. Case capacity may be an issue but Bullseye ought to take care of that. The .38 Special loading for 200gr at 760 fps is 3.0gr of Bullseye, that shouldn't be out of reach.

Hi SnubNose,
I just stumbled across this thread & wondered whether you're still pursuing your experiment? If so, any updates?

I love the .38-200, but pushing it to 750 is hotter than I've seen recommended. Ed Harris has stated that modern solid-frame S&W's can handle an average 700 fps without loosening up. Without checking back on that correspondence, I'm not sure if he was referring just to my J-frame S&W's or whether he included Victory Models & guns like yours.

I know that some of the old 200g factory .38 Special loads were advertised at about 600, 703, and 730 fps. I also have corresponded with others on this forum and elsewhere about my loads & theirs, and one experienced shooter was getting over 800 in .38 SPL 200g bullets using 2400 powder. I've never used 2400 & can't speak to the bulk necessary to push a .38 S&W 200g to 750, but could imagine such a recipe might be feasible in a K frame.

FLASH, FLASH.
I just double-checked Ken Waters's Pet Loads article, and he shot a 200g .38 S&W with Herco and achieved 784fps from a 4" barreled Ruger (built on Indian contract). He described it as very accurate, but maximum case expansion & "do NOT exceed." Sounds like a possibility. He used an R-P case, 200g Markell bullet (similar to 358430), and 3.6g Herco with a COL of 1.19.

If I had only my 5" Victory Model, I'd probably load up some to a longer COL (to help avoid pressure spikes) and use Herco to reach about 750--a little cooler than Waters's load. (I have a chronograph so can keep a close eye on the vels.) However, I also have 6 J-frame .38 S&W's and an Enfield, and wouldn't want to push them that hard by mixing up the ammo. I do feel inspired to brew up some to Harris's recommendation of 700fp, and use them for my carry loads & secondary HD loads.

I cast my own 200g bullets in several types--just learned to do it a couple of years ago. Not expensive to get setup, not hard--just do some reading first :-) Cast Boolits is a great place to get appropriate molds. My carry load is a large-meplat LSWC, with LRNs in speedloaders & strips.

The .38 S&W is a far more capable cartridge than commonly assumed. The CRUCIAL limiting factor is the danger of getting any of this hot stuff into an old breaktop--a recipe for disaster.