Because YOU asked!!!!!!!!!! Well, kinda! .358 WSSM

Like the kids say: "Made you look!" hahaha


All kidding aside, I wanted to post my first results with the .358 WSSM. Just got the Encore receiver and put the thing together. Cheap scope, 4-16X Barska (had a coupon for $30 off from MC Sporting Goods). The barrel is a "standard" wildcat from MGM and purchased through Just Hunt (I have no affiliation with them either) here in Indiana. Great folks.

Brass is OUT OF THIS WORLD for price! $100/50! It starts out with a 25 WSSM and is necked up to accept the .358" bullet. That being said, I can see me running some cast bullets out of this rifle just to bag a squirrel or two!

The load is based around a Nosler Accubond 225gr BT originally designed for the 35 Whelen.

I can hear you asking "WHY?" Well, we have some pretty flat land here in Indiana and high powered rifles are not allowed for deer hunting. Several years ago, they came out with a regulation that allowed for "pistol caliber carbines" and they have expanded it a bit. Minimum case length: 1.16", that does away with a bunch of under power auto and revolver rounds. Maximum case length: 1.625", that keeps someone from using a .30/06 or something like it. Minimum bullet diameter: .358"! So, there you have it. That is the answer to your "WHY?" Some smart cookie took all of that and came up with a round that would fit all of the criteria, and what a round they came up with!

Take a look:


The ballistics is much the same as the old .358 Winchester. Case volume is similar and starting loads are being used by many here.

The main powder so far has been H4895 with a few folks using BLC-(2) and others. I have a MILSURP powder that is much like IMR4064 and I will be playing with that to start with. Since I have 8lbs and all!

After shooting 22 shots, and having to clean the barrel after each of the first 5 shots and again after each group of 5, I was pretty well done when I got done!

The 225gr bullet is supposed to be traveling at 2500fps or so. I forgot to take the chronograph to the range today though! Next report though!

Here is the smallest group I got at 100 yards though:
(3 shots at the left were after a scope adjustment to get them to that point)


Lots of potential here. Next year, supposedly, they are lengthening the case regulation to a 1.8" maximum, taking in the 460S&W Magnum. MGM and others are already building carbine barrels in that caliber!

Here is a video of me shooting itclick on it to watch)


No fancy setup to hold the rifle. Just laying on some bags and holding the front of the rifle down via the front sling mount.

We will have to see what velocity I am getting from this puppy. If we do get near the velocity advertised, with the 225gr bullets BC, I can have a 400yard gun that has more punch there than a 44Mag does at the barrel! Now that would be cool!

So lets see. They don't allow high powered rifles but a 225 gr bullet going 2500 FPS is OK?

Makes perfect Gov't sense to me.

Be sure and vote for Rupert

http://www.idsnews.com/news/story.aspx?id=83646

smith crazy
Very nice, Thank you for sharing and hope you get to put it to good use. Those old 150s for the .35rem would be intresting. I guess you will be busy off season building brass with resizeing and fireforming
C.S.63
(carl)

That in an AR platform could be interesting.

look like a Whisper round short, fat and big bullet nice!

2500 fps, that's not too far behind the Whelen.

Rule3 said:

So lets see. They don't allow high powered rifles but a 225 gr bullet going 2500 FPS is OK?

Makes perfect Gov't sense to me.

Be sure and vote for Rupert

http://www.idsnews.com/news/story.aspx?id=83646

Click to expand...

Roy,
That is how things work all across the world. When the regulations were made, the round didn't even exist. As soon as someone puts a rule on paper, someone is going to find a way around it. Human nature. I didn't develop it, I am just going to use it, because it is a legal round. Plain and simple. Meets all of the regulations and is not specifically banned.

44Mag performance when it is at 400 yards is pretty impressive and getting a 400 yard shot here in Indiana is almost impossible. Someone will have a house or barn within that range, at least up north here. Down in the southern part of the state, not so much but by then, the flat kind of goes away too.

They made the rule to allow some pistol caliber carbines then someone made a new caliber that met all of the criteria.

I even called Hodgdon for help on developing a load, they wouldn't even make a suggestion. Not one with "nuclear powder" nor Trail Boss. So, maybe I will have to find another favorite powder company.

As for the other posters, thanks for the encouragement, I will keep you informed! By the way, if this catches on, maybe we will find a new handgun round too! Something new in an X frame!

You will now have to change your name to Wildcat Skip!

I'm just glad I wasn't the only one that saw that and thought of an AR...

Smith Crazy,
I live up in Elkhart and this cartridge is catching on like crazy with serious hunters. I use Mark Penrod out of North Manchester for my rifle work and he told me that he built a rifle around this cartridge and it's owner was getting 2" groups @ 400 yards! He found that 2500-2550 fps was the sweet spot for that gun.

.358 wssm

Skip, please keep us updated on your work with that round. I for one have always had a soft spot for the .35 caliber. Sounds like you have come up with a nice one. I wonder what Elmer would have to say about the new short case cartridges? Parker would love them but I'm not all that certain about Elmer. Later, James

It is going to be fun!

James, I sure will!

Different day, different technician! Hodgdon technician Mike, I think he is the one that is a member here, and I had a long, productive talk.

He gave no certainties, other than the "mark the case where the bottom of the bullet will end up and fill it up to there with Trail Boss" thing! That's good because that was just what I asked! Turn this puppy in the off season into a squirrel gun!

Several things he mentioned that are good to know. We spoke in generalities about the case and how easy the bullet would come out of it. He mentioned about keeping the bullet off of the lands a bit, I told him that I am about .010" or just a tad more with the Nosler 225gr Accubond bullet. He was very glad to hear we were using that one too. I thought, COOL!

I am down to about 1 1/4" groups and I know this combination will do better than that. It must be me.

There were 3 powders put on paper today: #1; Varget-didn't do very well as far as accuracy went, case is full so......scrapped. #2; Russian 4895-put a bit more in the case and it turned in the most consistent velocities over the loads ran today, still a bit slow, in the 2400fps range, so, I am going to shelve this powder too. (for now) #3; BLC-(2)-this by far showed the best group but again, just over the 2400fps range. Since this is a ball powder, I am not going to compress it at all, but, there is still room in the case.

From all of the loads tested today, there was not one sign of high pressure. Mike lauded the fact that I am in the Encore. Nice smooth faceplate, strong firearm, reputable accuracy. I added another thing: Smith and Wesson owns them now! hahaha


Also tested today were some lighter bullets, 200gr Hornady Interlock RNSP that are designed for the 35 Remington. Nothing overwhelming about their performance, but they will be cheaper shooting.

So, now where to? I am going to increase the BLC-(2) load by .5gr and call that good for a while. That should get me in the 2450fps range and I still have room to go. One caution from Mike was: "Be careful WHEN you develop your loads." I asked about the reputation of BLC-(2) being temperature sensitive. He replied that it was no more so than other powders that were developed in the same era. So, it is 50*F this week and that is almost smack dab in the middle of the temperature range he gave me. He said: "Be careful of developing a load @ 0*F and then using it to hunt prairie dogs in the summer when it is 100*F! You might have some pressure issues then!"

At any rate, that stands for all powders, everywhere, I was reassured that the new Hodgdon line of powders is much less sensitive than other brands.

He switched hats from tech to salesman in about a tenth of a second!

I would have been disappointed had he not done that too!

Skip, if temperature is an issue, you might try some single based powders. That's what all of the "Extreme" powders are. You also might want to try a little faster powder Powder Burn Rate. I get good accuracy in my .35 Whelen with 3031.

Paul5388 said:

Skip, if temperature is an issue, you might try some single based powders. That's what all of the "Extreme" powders are. You also might want to try a little faster powder Powder Burn Rate. I get good accuracy in my .35 Whelen with 3031.

Click to expand...

Paul,
Varget is one of their "Extreme" powders and I had a few rounds with that in this go 'round. I like Varget a lot in the 223 with heavy bullets as well as the .30/06 hunting loads but was under impressed with it in this little ditty.

Your suggestion is something I will consider, no doubt. Since you have some there, could you do me a favor?

Use a Lee dipper, 3.7cc, fill it without tamping and let me know the weight you get, please. I need to get into the 49.0gr area with that volume. Thanks!

If there are any other suggestions with corresponding information, such as Paul has given, feel free to share!

Skip, that's pretty hard to do without knowing what you're calling "tamping", so I scooped IMR IMR 3031 in a 3.7 cc dipper and sorta shook it off level. I think you'll see between 47 and 48 gr of 3031 in that volume.

BTW, the burn rate chart I posted lists Varget at #74 and IMR 4895 at #66. 3031 is listed at #56, so it is a good bit faster.

You are so cool!

Paul5388 said:

Skip, that's pretty hard to do without knowing what you're calling "tamping", so I scooped IMR IMR 3031 in a 3.7 cc dipper and sorta shook it off level. I think you'll see between 47 and 48 gr of 3031 in that volume.

BTW, the burn rate chart I posted lists Varget at #74 and IMR 4895 at #66. 3031 is listed at #56, so it is a good bit faster.

Click to expand...

Paul, You did exactly as I was hoping you would do. Just a full scoop. I have a plastic "beaker" that I dip out of and I just bring it up level. If I wanted to make it better or more consistent, I would fill it, the scrape it off with a business card.
The information that you gave me is exactly as I wanted it, just a full scoop. The tamping goes on when you seat the bullet!

I have about 3.7cc to fool with. I just wanted to know what that much IMR3031 weighed. The most similar cartridge that we have been using for starting loads is the .358 Winchester. One load for that and IMR3031 lists 49.0gr and has it as a compressed load. I just wondered how much volume that was and could I hope to get that in this case.

Thank you so much. I do think I want to stay with the "Extreme" powders. I had a 10*F change in weather today from yesterday and my BLC-(2) loads really showed the difference. ES and SD went way out of kilter compared to yesterday. I had 20fps ES and single digit SD numbers across 20 rounds. Now, that is pretty impressive! Today, more like 60fps ES and double digit SD numbers. And, the most important part, it showed up on the target too! If it hadn't, I wouldn't have cared.

I am trying to make this a super sub MOA rifle and it will have to have consistency to get that done..

Again, Paul, thanks for your help sir. Always appreciated.

Oh, by the way, have you any H322 on hand? I need you to do the same with that if you would or could!

I have lots of H322. What CC scoop do you want?? 3.7??

Rule3 said:

I have lots of H322. What CC scoop do you want?? 3.7??

Click to expand...

Yes, sir!

3.7cc!

Awesome!

Lee 3.7 CC dipper gives 52.5 grs. H322, 5 throws (straight edge) weighed on a DILLON beam scale. 78* F inside, A/C no humidity.

What a thumper that will be!

Muchas Gracias!

Rule3 said:

Lee 3.7 CC dipper gives 52.5 grs. H322, 5 throws (straight edge) weighed on a DILLON beam scale. 78* F inside, A/C no humidity.

What a thumper that will be!

Click to expand...

Not quite!

I do want to thank you Rule, that was pretty quick work!

The .358 Winchester has a maximum load for a 225gr bullet @ 43gr of H322. It is one of the only maximum charges for any powder that does not say that it is compressed. While we are in no man's land anyway, but I do want to stay as safe as possible, I want the next test to be with a faster powder.

The other thing is that this is one of the Extreme powders and by nature less temperature sensitive. That is a plus where on October 27th, we for sure are not running the air conditioning. Now, when Indian Summer comes, oh, about the end of November or early weeks of December, that might just be true for a day or two!

So, thanks for your help, Roy. Blessings on ya!