I'm about at the end of an 8# Keg. Most of it went into .45 ACP loads as 5.8 grains behind a hard cast H&G #68 semi-wadcutter as a major caliber reload. Is there a cleaner burning power that offers similar performance of WW-231/HP-38?

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Dave
SWCA #2465

I like WST............Win. Super Target. A very fine flat flake powder, very slick and it meters well. I used it in the 45ACP and got good results, but have since switched to Power Pistol for more oomph with hot loads.

In the 38 Special, 4.1 grains (which is top-end per Olin) with a plated 158-grain flat point gets me a bit over 800 fps and burns so clean I can easily go 1000 rounds between cleanings..........I've gone past 1200 before, and the gun still wasn't gummy, I just got bored enough to clean it instead of wiping it down.

When I was competing in shooting matches with my .38 Special, I was using Win 231 and 3.8 grains and it was one of the cleanest loads that I could remember. I shot all day long, never cleaned and it had no effect on my 60 year old M & P's performance. I was using a 158 grain SWC with that load.

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Vaya con Dios

WST

CLAYS ( straight CLAYS,....not Universal)

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NRA Life
USPSA/IPSC

I have used 231 for years and am probably too old to change. I use it in the .45, .38 and 9mm.

Agreed. The only difference for me, I load 3.5 gr instead of 3.8 but that's just splitting hairs.

I haven't tried it yet (still have a couple kegs of W231 left), but I've been looking HARD at Ramshot ZIP. It is nearly identical to W231 (just a tad slower in a few applications, but almost everywhere else a 1-for-1 replacement to W231, it appears, according to published data), and is from the same Belgian plant that makes the super-clean rifle powders in Ramshot's line. I haven't seen Ramshot marketing ZIP as being super-clean-burning, but it stands to reason it has a good chance of being so.

As far as KNOWN clean-burning powders, it's hard to beat VihtaVouri, but you'll pay cash for the convenience of a cleaner-burning powder. N325 is their W231 equivalent. Unfortunately, you'll also pay a price for metering efficiency, as the VV powders are not ball powders, but I can vouch for the fact they shoot CLEAN. When I was testing them, they actually left a couple of my pistols' barrels cleaner than when I had started shooting. Impressive, but I decided in the end the cost and metering problems were not worth it. I mean, really, what is a couple granules of powder in the barrel and some carbon on the barrel costing you?

WST, American Select, Clays and VV N-310 will all burn cleaner at 45 ACP pressures.

You might also give Winchester Super Field a look. Very clean stuff. I use it in my 9mm, 38 Super, 40 S&W, 38 Spl and 45 acp handloads. I wish it was also ideal for 357 magnum, then I'd only have to buy one powder for pistol.

allot of great powders have been listed, don't rule out AA#2 or AA#5. The meter extremely well & are very clean burning.

WST is my new favorite powder (bought 2 one pound cans). It's light gray in color so it's very easy to see inside the case, and it is not very dense, so it fills a case well. But, it has a little faster burning rate than 231, and it is very clean. The only negative is there is very little load data out there; especially for 9mm. It's not even referenced on Hodgedon's load data for the 9mm. I had to rely on various forum advice for my initial loading.

I'm going to a gun show next week, and I'm hoping to pick up a keg of WST.

IMO W231 was made for the 45 Auto and .38 Special. It's not a dirty powder. I'm guessing what you are seeing is the lube that's leaving the "dirt", not W231.

I have used a lot of powder in the 45 Auto and 38 Special including Clays, AA#5, Universal and a few others but I always seem to come back to W231. If you like the results you get with W231 don't change powders because you think there's something out there that will be cleaner because it's not the powder that's leaving the soot, it's the bullet lube...

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Freedom is never free!!
SWCA #3437

WST hands down. I've run maybe 8 diff powders in my 45acp over the years & always come back to WST for std pressures loads w/ all bullet wts & styles. Clays is too freaky @ the top & NOT suitable IMO for major loads, fine for minor, but pushing way too hard for major. A tiny bit faster than W231 but far cleaner & IMO, better accruacy w/ slightly softer recoil than W231 for the same vel.

Just as a clarification, what are we talking about when we say clean or dirty?
Unburned powder or sooty cases?

Dirty imo is smoke when fired, granules in the bbl and around the ejector rod, and black soot on the outside of the gun.

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JIM
NRA Pistol Instr

Hey! That was my post!!

Yep he's right, been my same results for many many years now, 38 spcl. and 45 acp hands down the best I have found for accuracy!! and not just light target loads, I have looked for better, and found a couple that did as good but they were dirtier!! and did not meter as well, WW-231 meters spot on and no powder will meter better, there may be a couple that do as well, but none better!! In over 30 year's of reloading for these two calibers, I have proven to myself, when it is time to reload cast or jackets for either one, the first thing I do is fill the powder measure with WW-231. You can try but it's futal, I am to old to try and find a better wheel, I had a dog once that chased his own tail, round and round he would go, maybe when I was younger, but just not for me. Good Luck!!

Well, can be both. Many powders burn "dirty" as they are not used in the right pressure range. SOme, like TG, just burn way too hot & leave soot.

Have you ever tried WST????? Really you should give a # a try in 45acp. I have yet to have anyone tell me they went back to BE or W231/HP38 after running WST in their fav 45. Anything is possible, but I would bet you love it.

I have used W231 for loading the 45 acp for 30+ years now and I really like it. I don't think it is particularly dirty though.......... at least not Bullseye powder dirty.

I also use Titegroup for other calibers and it can easily be used for .45 acp too. I have not done so yet because I still have tons of W231 in stock. Give a can a try - - they say it's cleaner.

By the way some of what re-loaders claim as dirty is actually caused by cheap bullet lube, not the powder in the case. I just bought a bunch of bullets from a new (to me) vendor and the lube is smoking like crazy. I don't think it is the bullet heads, just the lube he uses. I suppose that is why his prices are so much lower than other casters

Chief38

Lead bullets themselves do not smoke, it's all about the lube. It has nothing to do with cost but lube ingrediants. SOme smoke more than orhers, some powders react diff to the wasy lubes diff. I find W231 smokes pretty good w/ most bullet lubes, WST less so. TG, smokes really bad, it burns very hot on ignition.