I am loading some .44 magnum rounds. I plan on using 240 grain JHP bullets. I saw a recent thread on here saying that 10 grains of Unique powder was a good load (previously the biggest load of Unique that I had used was 9.5 grains). So I go to my Speer Manuals. Speer #13 gives a range of 9.2-10.3 grains of Unique for that bullet with the later being in bold, indicating that it is a maximum load. Speer #10 gives a range of 11.6-12.6 grains of Unigue with the same caution at the high end. Which brings me to my question: why such a large disparity? Has the powder changed over the years? Is it a fear of liabilty?

Go back to those same manuals and compare the OAL of the loaded cartridges, the brands and styles of the bullets (more precisely, their differences), and any difference in the primers and brass. (Different brands, lot#s and styles - magnum vs. standard - of primers will cause differences and brass thickness as well as hardness/softness can cause variations in load limits.) Now, consider that load data is produced and re-produced in manuals (often without re-checking the old data), so that the lot #s are different for virtually all of the components, EVEN IF THEY ARE THE SAME BRAND, meaning they were produced in different batches and will likely have variations, and you'll see why there is such a wide variety of load data.

So, the bottom line is that you should start nice and low with the source for data that is closest to your components, but EVEN IF YOU EXACTLY DUPLICATE the combination listed in that manual, you still must start at the start load, because lot # changes of all these components will cause pressure (and velocity) variations, not to mention the differences between your gun's chamber and barrel vs. the firearm or pressure barrel used in the manual...

Even the ambient temperature at the time of their test vs. when you are shooting will cause differences in pressure and velocity.

Its a good bit of both liability and minor changes through the years.
Unique in this specific role wont be taken seriously as would an h110 or 2400 load. Its a little wasteful to use a jacketed bullet over Unique. A lead counter part will work just as well at this power level.
whenever I work with jacketed bullets .. its over H110 or 2400 to get my moneys worth out of them

__________________
it just needs more voltage

I have read here and there that the methods used to measure pressure was not so good years ago and measured with modren methods have shown some loads to be too hot. True or not I do not know, could be todays fear of law suits as well. MMA10mm's reply pretty much nailed it. For example, my standard .357 Mag. load that has worked very well with all of my .357 K, L and N frames and Rugers locked up a recently aquired M-28 with flattend primers and near hammer the cylinder open results. A half grain reduction in the powder charge and a change of primers made things right for that particular revolver. The use of modren loading manuals and a bit of prudence in load development will serve us all well.

__________________
Stay safe people!

I would also suggest that you forget Unique for jacketed bullet loads
in the 44 mag. My favorite powder for full power loads is W296. A
charge of 24.0 grs with a magnum primer under a 240 gr JHP is a good
standard full power load that is slightly below absolute max and
should cause no problems in any quality gun.

Ditto the comment that Unique is not a very good powder if you want full power loads with jacketed bullets in 44 Mag. WW296, H110, HS6, Blue Dot, AA#9 or any number of other powders are better. I generally find the data agreement for those "magnum" powders better when using the same bullet, or even generic bullet type, in this cartridge. Specific bullet type vs generic bullet is a factor to consider.

That is likely one of the reason you are seeing such wide variation in load data for Unique, besides the other reasons which have merit. It seems to be an attempt to made it into a "do all" powder, and while it does have a wide range of uses, it is not at its best here. Thus, over a period, manufacturers found a place to put it, probably left it there, and went on to develop data for better powders.

__________________
" I said, good DAY! "

I recently loaded some 240 grain LSWC over 10 grains of Unique and a Win Large primer for my 329PD. Cases were sticking in the cylinder and 2 primers showed gas leaks. I did use a very heavy crimp that I believe contributed to this problem, based on recommendations to avoid bullet creep in the light weight revolver. I plan to stick to 2400 from now on and save the faster powder for shorter cartridges (40s&w).

Thanks for the replies. I can understand variances in load data but I found it odd that the ranges didn't even overlap. I think I will head the advice and save the Unique for my LSWC loads and find a different powder for JHP's.

Try 8.5gr Unique in your 329PD with that bullet. Assuming all you are looking for is a good target load, that should do it. It has been working well for me. I applied a pretty good crimp, too.

I have found that increasing case neck tension in the .44 mag by using a smaller diameter expander plug, helps more than a "good crimp", when the 329PD is involved.

I agree with you - there are a lot of questions with that load. First of all, I wonder why anybody would buy a 44mag and then download it to 357mag/45acp levels. Second, if somebody really wants to load it to 44mag levels, why are they using Unique?

Fast pistol powders are fine for 900fps plinkers. There are lots of fast pistol powders that will do that and just because Abraham Lincoln used Unique, doesn't mean that there aren't better powders for the task. Pretty easy to blow up a revolver by over-charging with fast pistol powders. We get pictures posted every now and then of formerly nice revolvers turned into scrap metal.

I personally prefer a powder that is darn hard to double-charge without noticing, and not so fast that a couple tenths of a grain is pushing the pressure limits.

Here is some 4" 44mag load data you might find useful.

I really like Blue Dot for many of my 44 magnum loadings...

Thats the load I hunt with for whitetail deer with my Ruger Super Redhawk using 240 grain XTPs. Does a great job and is really accurate.

I like Blue Dot and 2400 for jacketed loads.

__________________
Life is good!

I''ve used 10gr Unique under a Speer 240gr swaged SWC for 30+ years with no problems. It chronos at about 1100fps through the 8 3/8" barrel. I suspect most load data is reduced because of the very real potential for leading.

Be aware that data for jacketed bullets is very different than data for lead and can not be interchanged. I use mostly 296 for jacketed bullets.

I've checked frequently, and never had a bullet move out significantly. That's a good idea to try with full power loads if I ever had a problem though.

To each his own. There are good reasons to use Unique for 44Mag loads. Although it will not give you top velocity capabilities, it will perform adequately on paper and light skinned animals, humans included.

It performs well in a carbine where you can get the full use of the extra barrel length.

Can you get more with slower powders? YEP and 99.9% of the loads I have developed do just that. I am pushing a 240gr LRNHP with AA#9 (a lead friendly powder) to just under 1800fps from my Marlin 1894. That same load delivers just over 1300fps from my M629 Classic with a 5" tube.

I do not own a M329 and never will. I'm not much on buying something that has serious design flaws, just me, everyone is different.

There are rumors, and again, I have not substantiated them, that the ball powders associated with hotter loads cause frame cutting. Since the M329 has a flash shield, that means that that part is going to get attacked pretty heavily if you use them in it.

If that is okay with you, hey, have at it. Personally, if I did own a M329, I would use a flake powder, something like Blue Dot or SR4756, or something like them.

Just me, have fun and be safe.......

I started out using 2400 and didn't know there was any other magnum powder for 10 years.

I have found 10 grains of Unique with a 240 cast boolit to be a nice accurate mild load. My manual (Lyman 49th Ed) shows that I can go up to 11.7 grains of Unique with this same cast boolit.

I still don't, its been working for me for a long, long time

You could communicate your personal decision not to own one, without being disrespectful to those who do. Your opinion on design flaws is not universal.

I have always used H110 for full power loads but I'm switching over to 2400 as the association between ball powders with full power loads and shield cutting is too strong to ignore. I am a fan of Unique for plinking; if nothing else it simply works, and allows me to bulk buy one powder I can use in every handgun caliber I own. I'm moving towards consolidating into as few powders as possible to keep things simple.

I've used 2400 in 44 mags for about 30 years now never any problems in my Ruger Redhawk some loads to stout for my brother-in-laws S&W.

Wow, we are a lot alike! One other thing to consider on the M329 is to use a single-base powder instead of a double-base. I have nothing but my opinion, but I feel avoiding ball powders AND nitro-glycerin containing powders would be wise.

Why exactly would you avoid souble base powders And ball powder?

Well, again, this is just my opinion, and not substantiated by any science I am aware of, but:

1) Ball powders, due to their shape diminish in size as each kernal burns, creating smaller and smaller balls. This CAN (doesn't mean always) cause an increase in speed of the burn rate as the ball gets smaller. This is controlled greatly by deterrent coatings, but I'm not confident it is a 100% thing. In addition, if we could climb inside a cartridge as it's fired and watch what is happening, it is my impression that the degressive-burning, smaller-and-smaller in size ball powders will increase the "sand-blasting effect" that causes the erosion of the topstrap. Also, I seem to recall that ball powders had a heat issue - again this may have been solved with new coatings/processes/materials in manufacture, but the combination of the sand-blasting effect of the small particles with the higher heat, and that ball powders are all double-base (which I'll address below), just gives me the impression that they may be more errosive on the materials the 329 is made from.

2) Double-base powders contain Nitroglycerine and burn hotter and can be more errosive (depending on the application) than single-base powders. Personally, for a heavy-load in the 329, I'd pick IMR-4227. This is a single-base, tubular-shaped (with perforation) powder which burns cooler, and the shape of the kernals combined with that perforation cause it to burn neutrally. Finally, the tubular shaped powders seem to have the erosive effect in this application (pistols) vs. ball or flake-shaped.

Several of these aspects have been reported and are known scientific facts, but I cannot say they all have, and I cannot say they've been combined to address this issue of the flame-cutting of the 329 frame, so this is purely speculative opinion on my part.

Also, I'm take my comments as applying to an apples-to-apples argument, say H110/W296 vs. IMR4227. I cannot say my argument will hold up at all, if one compares something like W231 and IMR-4227. The change in load mass, burning speed difference, and powder burning rate may all play a part in causing a difference there. I'm specifically thinking of similar-type loads (like full-power) comparing one type of powder against the other.

I suppose someone could buy two new 329s and shoot only H110/W296 through one and only IMR4227 through the other, and then measure/photograph the differences to prove it one way or the other... Myself, I don't have a single 329, although I'd like to have one.

The Alliant web page shows 10.3 grains of Unique as max. with a 240 JHP bullet. I use Unique with my S&W 329PD. I have used 9.4 to 10.0 grains of Unique. with a 240 grain GDHP bullet. I have experienced no problems. I found I prefer the 9.4 grains with that revolver.


http://www.alliantpowder.com/reloade...33&bulletid=57

__________________
Hook686