38 special question steel plates

MDMarauder · May 6, 2012

I shot a steel plate pin match with my model 64 3" and my loads are a Xtreme plated 158gr SWC with 4.0 of W231, the groups with this load are very tight out of the M64 but lack in knock down.. I also shot my 1911 and knocks the plates down with authority.. I was using 230gr ball in the 1911. So the lack of 72gr of bullet wight? Here is a photo of the pins.

Pisgah · May 6, 2012

What you are seeing is the result of momentum. Yes, indeed, at similar velocities a 230 gr. bullet has substantially greater momentum than a 158 gr. bullet. Put another way, consider inertia -- the heavier bullet simply has greater inertia than the lighter, and greater inertia in the bullet better overcomes the inertia of the steel plate.

MDMarauder · May 6, 2012

So my question now is. How much heavier bullet can I shoot out of a 3" or 4" 38 spl? Or switch to one of my 357 mags, I really want to get proficient with a revolver.. I also have M29 and could try some 44 spl in it?

Rule3 · May 6, 2012

Inertia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You either have to increase the velocity or the weight of the bullet or both.

The load you have for the 38 is a excellent target load for paper punching.

They have "pin buster bullets" but they are more for 357 Mag.

Like a 180 gr lead out of the 357.

I do not know the specifics of your steel plates, how heavy or whatever.?

Titegroups · May 6, 2012

Enter your info into a energy calculator and see how much energy your 45 is developing and find a 38/357 load that will give you the same or close number and load it.

MDMarauder · May 6, 2012

Rule3 said:
Inertia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You either have to increase the velocity or the weight of the bullet or both.

The load you have for the 38 is a excellent target load for paper punching.

They have "pin buster bullets" but they are more for 357 Mag.

Like a 180 gr lead out of the 357.

I do not know the specifics of your steel plates, how heavy or whatever.?

I'll have to find out the info on the plates, they looked to be 3/8 to 1/2 thick and one foot tall..

David LaPell · May 6, 2012

Have you tried a +P load in your Model 64? I used to use a 158 grain load in my M & P load with 3.8 grains 231 and it was a pipsqueak for power but was good on accuracy. Also does your SWC have more of meplat? You can try a harder bullet too, they might help make up for some of the lack of power downrange.
I am not sure if your steel plate match is timed but if you go to a .357 you might lose some time having to recover from the first shot. I would try a bit more power out of your gun before you try a different caliber, maybe a harder bullet too.

TSQUARED · May 6, 2012

I use a mouse fart load of 2.8 gr. Trail Boss behind a 158 gr. LRN bullet and it drops plates easilly - poppers take a hit towards the upper third. With 3.2 to 3.6 gr. Trail Boss that same bullet drops poppers with authority.
That 2.8 gr. load chronograped at 611 fps and the 3.2 and 3.6 gr. loads provided 688 and 720 fps.

gwpercle · May 6, 2012

Load up some 44 spcl and give them a try in the Model 29 . It's going to be a lot easier to develop a plate load because you are starting with a heavier bullet. I find hot and heavy 38/357 loads harder to control than a 240gr 44 cal at 800 to 850 fps shot out of a nice N frame. this should be just the thing to take them pesky plates out.

I enjoy shooting the large bore N frames, kind of a nostalgic thing to do with every one else shooting plastic wonder-nines.

gary

poordevil · May 6, 2012

I have an old box of Winchester 200gr .38 spl Super Police. Maybe other companies made a heavy .38 spl load too. Is there any 200 -ish gr 38 bullets out there for reloading? They should hit hard.

P

Rule3 · May 6, 2012

Titegroups said:
Enter your info into a energy calculator and see how much energy your 45 is developing and find a 38/357 load that will give you the same or close number and load it.

There ya go. But you would need the velocity. Got a Chronograph? You could just guesstimate based on the load data if the test barrel is similar,

Energy Calculator

MDMarauder · May 6, 2012

Rule3 said:
There ya go. But you would need the velocity. Got a Chronograph? You could just guesstimate based on the load data if the test barrel is similar,

Energy Calculator

Thanks, I'll try this..

mikld · May 6, 2012

Standard "Police" load years ago for .38 Special was a 200 gr. RN bullet. So, 200 gr. in a 38 Special isn't unheard of. Try it...

growr · May 6, 2012

I used 5 grains of Unique with a 158 in .38 Spl casings and it would be very reliable in taking over the plates on our plate racks....Might work for you as well.

The load is accurate, controllable and fun to shoot. Doesn't however have the muscle that my .45ACP's do in my 25-2 though. Even marginal hits go over with authority with that combination.
Randy

Randy

Titegroups · May 6, 2012

If you can get your 158g chunks of lead moving about 1050fps you should have about the same energy as the 230g 45. I can easily do this with lite loads in my 6" gun with 357 cases.

Steve C · May 6, 2012

MDMarauder said:
... my loads are a Xtreme plated 158gr SWC with 4.0 of W231, the groups with this load are very tight out of the M64 but lack in knock down..

In my experience a 4.0grs of W231 with a 158gr lead bullet will only be about 700 fps from a 4" revolver and likely less than 700 fps from a 3" barrel.

Up your powder charge to at least 4.5grs to get factory equivalent standard velocity at around 800 fps + from a 4" revolver. Use 4.7grs give you a +P equivalent load to Winchester 158gr Super X. You will probably loose 25 to 50 fps with the shorter 3" barrel but it should give you enough slap to knock down those plates batter.

parabarbarian · May 6, 2012

As others have noted your bullets are moving too slow. In my limited experience, a 158 gr bullet at 1000 fps will knock over steel plates at least as well as a 45 ACP. In fact, my "wimpy" 800 fps loads seem to do as well. Reaching 1000 fps with a 158 gr bullet is difficult in the 38 special but trivial in a 357 magnum. However a 38 +P can reach 800 fps even with a fast powder like Bullseye.

brucev · May 6, 2012

First use a stiff jacket bullet preferably w/ a flat nosed full metal jacket. Take a look at the various loading manuals and select two to three powders that demonstrate the highest velocity for the weight bullet you are using. If possible , find and use heavy for caliber bullets... 180 gr. are so. Work up loads to the highest velocity your revolver will safely produce. As to actually knocking over the steel plates, please do recognize that there is nothing standard about the way such plates are made or how their bases are made or how they stand. You may end up with loads that may or may not work on the plates found at your range. As mentioned earlier, a stiffly constructed jacket bullet will be helpful. I have shot a lot of steel plates behind a church member's work building. Big heavy hard bullets work better than big heavy soft bullets. More than likely a stiffly jacketed bullet will not disintegrate so quickly when it hits the plate allowing more time for it to work transferring energy to the plate which is what it takes to make the plate fall. JMHO. Sincerely. brucev.

MDMarauder · May 8, 2012

Thanks for the help everyone. I'm going to work up some loads with some 158gr FMJ flat points I have. My next match is in June, so this gives me some time.. I'm also going to work up some 44spl loads. I found shooting the match with a revolver a challenge and fun.. With a auto just fun, not much of a challenge.

m1gunner · May 8, 2012

Penn has some 180, 200 and 230 grain bullets, the 230 being for either 38sp or 357 cases. You need moderate velocity and a big bullet to do what you want.

38 special question steel plates

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