Leading with the Speer .38 158gr LSWC

tacotime · Oct 10, 2012

Seems like I was shooting these for a while in this 2 in. Mod 36 with no leading, but now I am seeing some. I was using Unique 4.5 around 630fps then went to Bullseye 3.5 around 700, and see what appears to be some some lead just past the forcing cone after 10 or 15 rounds.

I know these are soft but I thought these had to be pushed a good deal faster to get leading.

Anyone else have experience like this?

Thanks.

Maximumbob54 · Oct 10, 2012

Maybe the BE is just a little hotter of a fire behind them. I went from Unique to BE to Win 231 and still use 231 for most everything.

rck281 · Oct 10, 2012

Those bullets are very soft. They are swaged and not cast.

hotrod150 · Oct 10, 2012

I'm pushing them with 4.5 gr W231 for about 800 fps out of a 2" j-frame & haven't encountered any leading issues. Maybe you got a bad batch. Does the all-over lube on the bullets seem correct?

tacotime · Oct 10, 2012

As far as I can tell, the lube is the same as the other batches... a kind of waxy satin appearance on them and a little slippery to handle.

MichiganScott · Oct 10, 2012

Sometimes bullets will lead if not pushed hard enough. There must be enough pressure to bump them up so they will fully obturate in the forcing cone and bore. Otherwise you get melting of the bullet from the flame.

Charles Graff · Oct 10, 2012

Yep, that sounds about right. Swaged bullets have a very limited range of velocity before they start to lead.

jepp2 · Oct 10, 2012

Could the barrel cleanliness have changed?

If you fired any jacketed bullets and didn't get out all the copper, that can cause leading.

tacotime · Oct 10, 2012

It's been a while since any jacketed bullets...

But it's going to get a better cleaning anyway.

Since the loads are already near max loads, that should be fast enough to seal I hope!

ArchAngelCD · Oct 10, 2012

@ only 650 fps you might be getting some leading because the bullet isn't sealing off the barrel and hot gasses are getting to the sides of the bullets. Try pushing the bullets with a little more pressure.

tacotime · Oct 11, 2012

I hope they are sealing at the current load because it is max per the Speer manual, without going into +P territory. I need to re-chrono to be sure, but this is a 1-7/8 inch barrel.

Then again, I didn't notice leading running a little slower with the Unique load, which was not a max load.

Steve C · Oct 11, 2012

Its important to keep the barrel clean to avoid leading as once it starts it accumulated quickly. I always clean my guns after every range session and pay particular attention to cleaning when using lead bullets. If you don't see any lead that doesn't mean there isn't a bit left. Lead arrives in the barrel 2 ways, from friction and melted off the bullet by the hot gasses from the burning powder. There will almost always be a bit left that's melted from the base of the bullet unless you use gas checks.

tacotime · Oct 12, 2012

How about a good normal cleaning with powder solvent and brushing/patching followed by some lead remover?

I don't hear much about lead removers, but I did pick up a bottle of Shooter's Choice and in the few times I have used it, patches show some color out of what looked like a fairly clean barrel.

semperfi71 · Oct 12, 2012

The black powder cartridge shooters use a "gascheck" cut from waxed milk/o.j. cartons or wads purchased online (Midway has them). In their sport metal gaschecks are not allowed. They use these because the soft lead bullets are melted on firing at the base by the hot black powder.

Therefore I have "borrowed" that technique and use milk carton wads in all of my smokeless handgun cast bullet loads. I am perhaps getting mixed results and need to do more testing/shooting to positively say what the affect is.

However, I think it may be beneficial. So you might try it by getting wads from Midway rather than buying a punch. The wads could be used up and if it does not work you have not "lost" anything. They will not raise pressures in a safe load.

To clean lead securely in a revolver I have found a need for a variety of "tools". The Lewis Lead Remover to remove lead buildup in the forcing cone (extremely important) and to remove "most" barrel leading.

Secondly, Chore Boy copper scrub pads (or a suitable replacement) and then unraveled and "re-threaded" around a bore sized bronze brush to create a tight bore fit. Sometimes this will remove all barrel leading and avoid having to use the Lewis tool, except on the forcing cone.

Thirdly I keep either a "lead free" cloth available or the bore size patches. After the above methods are used their use truly eliminates the smaller traces of lead in the lands of the bore.

I have heard here, and perhaps on the Midway "reviews", about the liquid lead removers that they may not work very well.

Some people post that they just shoot jacketed bullets to clean up a leaded bore. I used to do this as well. But I do not now. Consider this, you are shooting jacketed bullets into a bore that has an "obstruction" in it. Our revolvers are too valuable and, in some cases, too difficult to repair or replace.

So I lean towards the less "invasive" cleaning techniques.

Finally I am shooting the Speer and Hornady lead semi-wadcutters in a variety of S&W and Colt .38 Specials to velocities of 850 to 1,000 feet per second and getting very little leading.

Good luck.

ArchAngelCD · Oct 12, 2012

tacotime said:
I hope they are sealing at the current load because it is max per the Speer manual, without going into +P territory. I need to re-chrono to be sure, but this is a 1-7/8 inch barrel.

Then again, I didn't notice leading running a little slower with the Unique load, which was not a max load.

You said the Unique load is only generating 630 fps. I find it hard to accept that is a max .38 Special load even in today's watered down data environment.

tacotime · Oct 12, 2012

The 630 was likely a 4.5 unique load out of 4.7 shown as max, if my notes were correct. This is a 1-7/8 barrel. I'll re-test...

Still a little puzzled about the leading though...

venomballistics · Oct 12, 2012

load some with BE and load some with Unique ... keep em separate and see for certain which one is the offender.
if its low pressure keeping them from sealing up the bore, the Unique load will produce the issue.
if its the flame temp theory, then the BE will be the problem.

if its the BE load .. abandon it .. if its the unique load .. warm it up a little and try again.

these swaged lead bullets can be a pain like this sometimes. cast tends to be favored for the harder alloys and larger quantity of lube.

arc2x4 · Oct 12, 2012

Another alternative if you are happy with current loads is to tumble the bullets in a jar with a few drops of Lee liquid Alox. This step will eliminate your leading.

MichiganScott · Oct 12, 2012

tacotime said:
The 630 was likely a 4.5 unique load out of 4.7 shown as max, if my notes were correct. This is a 1-7/8 barrel. I'll re-test...

Still a little puzzled about the leading though...

I get 660 fps with 3.6gr PB out of my 642 with the 158gr Speer and that's no where near a max load. I get 780 fps with factory +P.

Alliant list 5.2gr of Unique as a max +P load. If you retry the Unique load and get the same results, I'd up the charge. You have quite a bit to play with.

tacotime · Oct 15, 2012

I can probably recover a shot bullet and have a look at the base to see if the Bullseye is burning it up or not...

I did shoot some Oregon Trail 158 SWC along side the Speer and they shot a slightly tighter group but at the end I was not sure which one caused the leading... here comes another re-test... but hey that is part of the fun.

Someone else advised that hard cast bullets were really not best for regular 38 loads because they probably wouldn't seal.

Leading with the Speer .38 158gr LSWC

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