A reloaders challenge

[Bruce51]

Fellow reloaders:

I would like to propose a reloaders challenge for those able to shoot and recover their bullets.

We all keep reading about plated bullets cracking,splitting,working and not working.

Well how about actually doing some tests and posting photos of the results.

This test can be done in both autos and revolvers. It would need to take into account the over crimped claim as well as purposely scoring bullets to see how they look after being fired.

It can be done with a single bullet or the test can be as many variations as one can conceive.

If someone has done this please link up the info so we all can read the results.

How about some real world tests. Anybody up to this challenge?

BLM

[DWalt]

The problem would be in bullet recovery, as impact with any firm target media would cause damage. While it is possible to recover a fired bullet in relatively undamaged condition, there are special methods required to do this. I was involved in a military program once requiring firing 5.56mm bullets into a large quantity of loose cotton batting. That worked to recover undamaged bullets, but is not feasible for a private individual.

Quite often, bullets recovered from granular rubber media bullet traps are found in relatively undamaged condition. Firing into deep water might also work at lower velocities.

[Bruce51]

Maybe we need to get Jaime and Adam from Myth Busters to run some tests.

They have the budget. We can offer to sign on as consultants so they get it done right.

BLM

Actually I would not care what the bullets were fired into. Real world tests, dirt, newspaper,water jugs, water balloons anything.

[Magload]

High speed photography get a look at the bullet before it hits anything

[Smith357]

I have not done any tests on plated bullets, but I did get 1000 plated .38 wadcutters one time that showed signs plating coming off. these loads were just light target loads shot from a Model 14, you can clearly see marks around two holes from the plating peeling away from the lead on the paper. I found that about one third of them showed signs of this peeling that looks like it is from the rifling cutting through the copper.

[Magload]

I have seen that on my targets and never thought much about it. I will go check my targets I have saved and what bullets and loads they were.

[Abflyboy]

It's funny this should come up now. My son and I happened to be shooting into some pretty soft dirt Sunday and recovered a lot of bullets.

9mm, .40 S&W, 45 ACP were the calibers we were shooting, all were the same brand of plated bullets. The ones that were fired through Glock barrels with polygonal rifling showed signs of lead through the copper plating but there was zero lead in any bore. The bullets fired through conventionally rifled barrels all showed the rifling lands cut into the bullets but no sign of the plating coming off.

There were also a lot recovered after hitting rocks that were buried in the dirt, also no sign of plating delamination.

Just my observations on ONE brand of plated bullets through many different firearms.

I didn't think to bring any home with me or we could have some pics

[Bruce51]

Smith357 Thank you for posting the target pictures.

I have shot thousands of plated bullets and have never seen signs of copper pedals peeling back.

Abflyboy's post reminded me of two plated bullets that squibbed in a model 14 and a model 19.

When the bullets were removed the copper was cut through by the lands.

Talk about cutting through at low velocity a squib is very slow.

I tried the Berrys DEWC with every possible load level of BE and Unique.

I could never get a decent group from that bullet.

Keep it coming, save and photo those bullets.

BLM

[DWalt]

"I tried the Berrys DEWC with every possible load level of BE and Unique. I could never get a decent group from that bullet."

About 3 or 4 years ago I had the same experience. Used up what I had (I think I bought either 250 or 500, don't remember) and went back to using more conventional DEWC bullets.

[Vortec MAX]

I have recovered plated 45 ACP 230 GR RN and 200 GR SWC and 38 SPL 125 GR FP that showed no signs of the plating coming off. Some of them were pushed pretty hard too. On the other hand, the 250 GR FP I recovered from the Governor (45 Colt) had a lot of the plating blown off. I believe this is because of the oversize cylinder before the bullet gets to the barrel. The peeling seemed to start at the crimp line.

I have not seen the plating come off when fired from anything else.

Mike

[rwsmith]

I believe they fired into a barrel full of cotton wadding. I have some polyester filler for pillows that would probably work if I get another bag or two.

I skipped over plated bullets in favor of coated, which I'm really happy with. If I can get some small quantities of plated bullets I wouldn't mind participating.

[DWalt]

"I believe they fired into a barrel full of cotton wadding. I have some polyester filler for pillows that would probably work if I get another bag or two."

No, it was actually a 60' van trailer. I was there.

[Nevada Ed]

I have had a 9mm plated 115gr up to 1249 fps average that
should be kept at around 1200 fps per the company.

All the holes were "Round" with no sign of plating parts
sticking out.............. for what it is worth.

A tall ladder and a 50 Gallon barrel full of water will test this out in a hurry !!

[mikld]

Good idea, go for it. Post your results, with photos and we'll all comment on your work...

I've only reloaded about 1K of plated bullets with no problems, but I followed the manufacturer's suggestions...

[Magload]

I seen a youtube where a guy had his girlfriend shoot in the barrel of water. It was a big caliber and she stood on a raised porch and shot into it a couple times. Can you say wet tee shirt. Who carried what the bullet looked like.

[Bruce51]

The most important part, that I would like to see proven true or not is does over crimping break the plating.

So crimp them hard enough that damage may or may not be done.

If others have seen the video of the .44 magnum and the suspended water balloon test then you are aware that it only took three balloons to stop the bullet.

Water jugs may be the easiest test barrier available to all.

If I can ever get out somewhere to do this test I certainly will.

Using public indoor ranges has its limitations.

BLM

[Magload]

Ya mine wouldn't be happy with the water on the floor.

Now I been thinking about this the plating has to get scored by the rifling way more then the crimp. Are we sure it is the crimp doing the damage? If it doesn't happen with a proper crimp then I guess not.

[Engineer1911]

I have mined pounds of plated bullets from the dirt berm at the outdoor gun range. When I melt the scrap bullets, I have to really use a shovel to damage the bullet plating to get the lead to run out or else I'm skimming full bullets that have melted cores but intact plating.

I know the difference between a plated bullet and an FMJ bullet. I mined a particular area where many of my bullets impacted. The bullets were not badly deformed and had mushroomed slightly in the sand.

[Bruce51]

Originally Posted by Engineer1911

I have mined pounds of plated bullets from the dirt berm at the outdoor gun range. When I melt the scrap bullets, I have to really use a shovel to damage the bullet plating to get the lead to run out or else I'm skimming full bullets that have melted cores but intact plating.

I know the difference between a plated bullet and an FMJ bullet. I mined a particular area where many of my bullets impacted. The bullets were not badly deformed and had mushroomed slightly in the sand.

I was wondering if melting plated bullets.was a problem Now I know.

I have scraped plating from the side of a bullet while seating.
Actually it is cutting off of the side of the soft lead including the plating.

I'm sure that there is a wealth of information to be learned from these posts.

Still need someone to put the over crimp scenario to the test.

BLM

[Nevada Ed]

I was spell bound when I saw that 44 cal. and water balloon test !!

I thought at least six of those little balloons !!

Just goes to show what surface area does when it looses speed..........against resistance.

Of course I knew that when I had to go from lead to light weight steel pellets for duck hunting
but they were round.

[fredj338]

I've seen the affects of over crimped plated on a paper target @ close range. Little frags of copper plating stuck in the paper. Many of you are assuming that the plating process is 100% uniform & it's not. So some will have issues, some not, all depends on how much crimp is applied.

[Deadctr]

First time posting pictures, so pardon if it ain't right.

From PA, so had a lot of snow this winter. It didn't do too bad as a recovery media, snow on top of freshly tilled food plot, then a thunderstorm, uncovered a bunch of plated bullets.

One was an impact on steel, you can see where the rifling caused weak planes. The others are intact. You can see where the lead is oxidizing and bleeding thru the rifling.

20150502_113027.jpgAttachment 195357

[Bruce51]

Thanks for the picture Deadctr. Now what caliber are those bullets?

The plating looks good with a little lead showing at the lands.

I would like to purposely cut through the plating around the circumference to see the results of firing through a revolver.

It may be awhile before I can find a place to do this test. In the mean time show us what you find. Be sure to list the caliber and gun used.

BLM

[Deadctr]

gun used was a M&P FS 9.

They are Berrys 115 Grain

[Magload]

That is exactly what I am shooting thanks for the info.