30-30 and cast bullets

I have a winchester 94 that just sits in my safe and gets no use. So i want to reload for it using cast bullets just plinking loads. When is a gas check needed i saw under 1700 fps you dont need one but that seems high to me. Can anyone offer any input thanks in advance

It depends on the lead alloy, but I believe you are right, and at 30-30 velocities you would definetly want to go with a gas check, I have never shot cast bullets in my 30-30, but my buddy shot mine Saturday and wanted to shoot a hedgeapple. We have both recently sold our ARs to pick up some old Smiths and he is leaning toward a 30-30. That 150 grain soft point on the hedgeapple made a believer out of ole Dave! LOL Billy

My nephew is a new 30-30 owner. We have been doing some research on cast bullets for the 30-30. We did find quite a bit of good info over on the "Cast Boolits" forum. You might want to check it out.

I'd just bite the bullet, so to speak, and use gas checks period.
Right now Im working on some loads for its slightly bigger brother the 32 special. The faster rate of the 30-30 might case some grief at some point but man let me tell you that 32 spec is nothing short of brilliant with gas checked cast even at pretty much full house hunting loads.

good timely topic

I've been thinking along the same lines. 30-30 Marlin sitting in the safe for awhile. I just got dies for it tonight.

Keep the thread going and post updates. I still need to get a few things: bullets, primers and shell holder. And I need to do some reading-up on it.

I have been shooting a 165gr plane base bullet with an 18 BHN without any sign of leading in the barrel. I do keep the velocities under 1800 fps and my actual velocities are just under 1600 fps. I have been using H4895 but I'm also going to try several other powders including H4198, LVR and Trail Boss.

Marlin lever guns

If your Marlin is stamped "Micro groove rifling", you will have a lot of trouble getting cast bullets to shoot accurately. Winchesters are not a problem. My 1894 Marlin 44 mag had "minute of buffalo" at 50 yards with cast lead bullets. My Ruger super blackhawk was more accurate at 100 yards.

If your Marlin has microgroove rifling you just have to find the correct bullet diameter, design and alloy, just like any other gun. Go to either Cast Boolits or the Marlin forum and ask around. They can help you.

These are loaded with Trail Boss and have no gas check as they are powder puff loads:



These are loaded with a max charge of H335 and wear gas checks:



They are both shot in this Marlin 336 with Micro Groove barrel:



As for accuracy, last time I was out with some friends a month ago and we were chasing a milk carton around at the end of the range.

I also load plated bullets with Trail Boss and they are very accurate as well. I tried Unique and didn't get good accuracy for whatever reason. I had keyholes in the paper when I tried them. That was using data from the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook.

The bullet is cast from a Ranch Dog mold that sadly is no longer made. 165gr flat point with tumble lube grooves and a gas check. At slow velocity they don't require a check but since I cast them softer than you normally should for rifle loads I check them and they shoot straight and don't lead line the bore.

Some good info thanks. I use 2400 for my 686 loads and still have a fair amount left so i was thinking of using that. Lymans 49th says 1624 fps at starting grains 18 grain max around 1800. just dont want to lead my barrel. Mabey i will look into some trail boss as well. Again thanks.

I forgot to mention that I size mine at .310" for better fit and less leading.

When shooting cast in a rifle I like to go heavy for caliber. If you are buying bullets I would go with gc as you have no control over the lube. You can shoot plain based if you use a good lube and have control over the alloy and speeds.

Engineer1911 said:

If your Marlin is stamped "Micro groove rifling", you will have a lot of trouble getting cast bullets to shoot accurately. Winchesters are not a problem. My 1894 Marlin 44 mag had "minute of buffalo" at 50 yards with cast lead bullets. My Ruger super blackhawk was more accurate at 100 yards.

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My M-336 with Micro groove shoots cast extremely well.

Think about it, lots of small lands spaced close together do a good job of gripping the softer lead bullet without a lot of deformation.

The trick to getting cast bullets to shoot well in Micro Groove barrels is to make sure they are absolutely free of copper fouling and use a hard bullet.

You would be shocked at how well these barrels can shoot.

Cerberus62 said:

My M-336 with Micro groove shoots cast extremely well.

Think about it, lots of small lands spaced close together do a good job of gripping the softer lead bullet without a lot of deformation.

The trick to getting cast bullets to shoot well in Micro Groove barrels is to make sure they are absolutely free of copper fouling and use a hard bullet.

You would be shocked at how well these barrels can shoot.

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I can buy into this on the basis that the Marlin 22's are micro grooved and shoot soft swaged lead their entire careers.
so there IS a way to do it.
if buying a gun for cast, I'd probably avoid micro grooved barrels so as to avoid need for tricks but if its what you have to work with .. break out the plumbing solder and harden those heavy pills on up

When I load Lyman 311041 or similar in the 30-30 without gas checks I set the sizer to fill the gas check shank area with lube.

I then seat the bullet so the lubed base section is contained in the case neck and get very good results this way.

At low pressures the lube acts as a sort of O-ring preventing gas cutting of the sides and base, and at high pressures the shank obturates out to fill the bore and acts like a well lubricated plain base bullet.

I have the targets and recovered bullets to prove this approach works, most of the time anyway.

Raised two boys with Winchester 94's and cast bullet loads. Now have 9 grandkids, and a great-grandson coming up fast.

Favorite load, tried and true:

Lee C309-170RF, cast of 50% wheelweights & 50% Linotype metal
Hornady crimp-on gas check
Alox NRA-formula bullet lube applied in .309" die in the lubri-sizer
Standard large rifle primer
30 grains H335, topped with 1.0 grain loose Dacron fiber fill
Bullet seated to crimp groove, firm roll crimp.

This has chronographed at 1950 to 2050 FPS muzzle velocity. This is essentially a full power load that performs much like factory ammunition. We have taken dozens of Colorado mule deer with this load, usually under 100 yards, and very few have required a second shot.

A good load to start off a young shooter with, and also very good for short range small game use:

Same bullet, omit gas check
8 grains Unique, 2.0 grain tuft of Dacron fiber fill

Estimated 1200 FPS. Very accurate to 50 yards or so. Very little recoil. My Model 94 is equipped with the Lyman receiver sight, and I use the 200 yard setting for point of aim at 50 yards.

Another thing I experimented with many years ago:

Number "0" buckshot seated in case mouth and crimped
5.0 grains Unique, 2.0 grains Dacron fiber fill

Very inexpensive, accurate to 25 yards, bore cleans easily with a good bronze brush. You'll have to play with your sights to find the correct setting, but this load will easily take just about any small game at short range.

NOTES:

Cases used for reduced loads should be segregated and never again used for full power loads. Reduced loads can have the effect of shortening the brass which, in rimless cases results in excessive headspace, while in rimmed cartridges like the .30-30 this could result in expanding gases venting around the cartridge case back into the breech (not a good thing) with full power loads.

The Dacron fiber fill placed over the powder helps to keep reduced loads back near the primer for improved ignition. It is completely consumed on firing. If you choose to use this method you should work up your loads with the fiber fill in a consistent size/weight; do not add fiberfill to an established load, as this can boost pressures.

165gn #1 Whitetail RNFP Missouri Bullet over Trail Boss at 50yd.......
Bbl slugged .307, .309 dia bullet,No gas check....No leading....
'69 336....Real good plinking/practice load....
To "reach out" try Hdy 160gn FTX's over IMR 4895

Another little sweet heart that you might want to try is the 100gr plinker from Hornady. I use it in my 30-06 with 16-20grs of SR4759, for a 50 yard target and rabbit load for the kids.

jimkim said:

If your Marlin has microgroove rifling you just have to find the correct bullet diameter, design and alloy, just like any other gun. Go to either Cast Boolits or the Marlin forum and ask around. They can help you.

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Go to Missouri Bullet Company thier Whitetail number 2 works in the Marlin.
MarlinOwnersw.com has some good load information.
TraillBoss 7.5 grains makes a nice target load, shooting wize, don't know how accurate it is yet or the volicity

SR4795 is great stuff

Nevada Ed said:

Another little sweet heart that you might want to try is the 100gr plinker from Hornady. I use it in my 30-06 with 16-20grs of SR4759, for a 50 yard target and rabbit load for the kids.

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I use SR4795 with the 100 gr plinker and the 110 gr. spire point from Speer in my 30-06 at around 1800 fps (a medium load). My family and I love it. Shoot for hours with no soreness or fatigue. And the plinkers are especially cheap. If I want something heavier I use 4895 and a bigger bullet. The versatility of the 30 caliber family is amazing. Fun city.