.38+P vs. target brass

[NYlakesider]

Long time reloader here, got a question that I cannot answer.

I found a bunch of once fired .38 target brass (assorted makes) and a decent amount of 1 fired +P stuff (different grain weight slugs ,different makers) My question is the +P cases any stronger than the ones that held the 148 grain wadcuttes. I got these back in the 80s and they have been in a sort of forgotten box on a shelf and it’s time to utilize them. With NYs new draconian “safe law” I might have to load more and if the +Ps cases are better/stronger will save them for more serious loads.

Thanks, Dave

[Rule3]

No, it is the same brass. Just marked to indicate that it was a +P load.

Brass is the same only the head stamp has been changed to protect the innocent.

[tappedandtagged]

I would still save the +P brass for, as you said, "more serious loads."

My reasoning is that if you were to go to the range and drop your reloads, you could easily pick them back up, look at the headstamp and know which ones are loaded hot and which ones aren't. Of course, this is a moot point if you load different bullets for your target vs. hot rounds.

[NYlakesider]

Originally Posted by tappedandtagged

I would still save the +P brass for, as you said, "more serious loads."

My reasoning is that if you were to go to the range and drop your reloads, you could easily pick them back up, look at the headstamp and know which ones are loaded hot and which ones aren't. Of course, this is a moot point if you load different bullets for your target vs. hot rounds.

Right you are I load lead SWC for fun and JHP for serious.

Thanks for the answers!

[cjw3]

The .mil and some makes of commercial +P brass are thicker.

You won't notice this unless you try using it for flush seated wadcutters. Some think otherwise, but BTDT.

[Rule3]

A lot of SD +P ammo is also in Nickle plated which is supposed to resist tarnishing better. Guess it goes back to when ammo was in cartridge belts. The plating can add a fraction more of thickness but doesn't make the brass any stronger.

All my semi auto SD ammo is nickle.

[Nevada Ed]

I don't think there are to many "Metalic" reloaders that sort their brass per manufactures for their different type of loads, except for the +P cases.............
I have boxs of regular brass and some that are +p cases in a red plastic case, saved for hot loads..............

I do use different colored 12Ga hulls, from the different manufactures, so I know what steel reload is there, just in case the shells get mixed up on duck hunting trips.

[garbler]

Originally Posted by Rule3

A lot of SD +P ammo is also in Nickle plated which is supposed to resist tarnishing better. Guess it goes back to when ammo was in cartridge belts. The plating can add a fraction more of thickness but doesn't make the brass any stronger.

All my semi auto SD ammo is nickle.

Actually I think it was Lee Jurras and Super Vel high performance hunting and defense ammo who started the nickel plated case thing back in the early 60's. I remember at the SHOT show back in the mid to late 60's hearing from one of Federal's people that the nickel plating did indeed make for a stiffer case plus easier extraction and easier cleaning. But since then I have found the following to be the case

Nickel cases both straight wall pistol and shouldered rifle have a tendency to split at the neck or mouth a lot sooner than plain brass. I reload everything but shoot a number or wildcats and therefore have to anneal necks and this is something you cannot do with nickel cases. A couple of my favorite cartridges are the 257 and 30-06 Ackley Improved 40° and most of my hunting ammo is nickel cases and I have a number of them somewhere around 7-8 reloads that I neck size and bump the shoulder only and already I see cracks. Similar with 38/357's I see more split mouths on nickel than old plain brass.

I therefore think though the nickel plating may achieve a bit more tensile strength the downside is you see more early fatique fracturing as a result of firing and reforming the case mouths during repeat loading operations. The cases just do not have the elasticity to withstand repeated stress cycles and soon become brittle or work-hardened. This problem is probably more common to cases with heavy roll crimps as opposed to taper and those where full length sizing is required with every load.

Can't prove it but see it all the time.

[Rule3]

I load pretty much every handgun caliber and several rifles. They only brass I ever had split was NICKLE plated 357 mag and they had only been loaded for "normal" rounds. Nothing above spec.

I have put it all aside and only use regular brass now. I do use nickle factory loads for carry, just because I always have, as that's the way it comes, not because of perceived liability issues.

[Nevada Ed]

I have some winchester NICKLE brass that I have been loading for years and have been waiting for it to die but it keeps on ticking and ticking............
Just goes to show how you can get some milage out of target loads.

A picture of the good,bad and the ugly.

[mtgianni]

Some of the double cannelure target 38 brass I believe is thinner brass. I have never weight sorted it against 38 standard or +P stamped brass.

[garbler]

Looking for brass that is thicker or heavier does not always mean stronger. It's all about metallurgy and the alloys developed and used. Brass is essentially copper and zinc with perhaps a bit of something else ( lead and ? ) for machinability. WW has always been thinner with cases that held a bit more and than Remington which always measured a bit thicker. Nobody has ever proved to me which lasted longer or was stronger. You can see the color differences in the brass though as WW has always been more yellowish and Remington more reddish or one has more zinc than the other perhaps.

[BobR1]

I reload lots of 38. I have some very old cases also, as I have been reloading 38 off and on since around 1970. In the last 5 years or so the Loading of 38 Special has been in the On Mode. I started shooting my revolvers in Defensive Pistol Matches a lot more. My point being I have coffee cans of 38 Brass some fairly old.
I lose some brass from splits in the case side walls. The cases that do this are always wad cutter cases, and seem to be pretty thin.
I have several GI Cases, never seem to lose one of them from case split. I never lose a +P Case either on the body splits.
My guess has always been that some of the old 148 Wadcutter brass was thin.

If I were going to wind up some +P ammo I would probably sort out my +P for that.

I just loaded some 38 Special & 357 Magnum 125 and 135 Speer Gold Dot Short Barrel loads for Carry. I bought NEW Brass for this application.

Bob

[358156hp]

Here is the best article (with pics) to help you with wadcutter basics 101.
75,000 Wadcutters in a Model 27

Winchester match wadcutter brass is different from conventional 38 spl, +P brass only differs by the headstamp. Plus there are differences in cannelure locations. I believe plated cases are used for SD ammo for a number of reasons. First of all, and perhaps the most functional reason is because they are harder and slicker on the surface, and tend to feed into the chamber more positively. Nickel does add a measure of corrosion resistance over brass cases, and lastly, the nickel cases are more easily identifiable, and are more appealing to look at. Nickel cases are often associated by some with "premium" ammunition, and that's an important feature too, although not necessarily correct. Personally, I sell my nickel brass off as soon as I accumulate enough of it to be worth the effort, except for 9mm, which I use some nickel brass in to identify bowling pin loads.