Bullet Drops Inside Case When Seating

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Filibogado

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I'm just getting started with my Lee Classic turret press and about 20% of my 9mm lead bullets are dropping into the case already filled with powder. On the cases which seat properly, the total length is within specs, which tells me the seating travel is correct but the case mouth is flared too wide. Yet when I am mounting the bullet, it just barely goes in and does not go past the case rim relative to the ring around the bullet. I may have to adjust the powder filling and expanding die to reduce the flare. The question is: looking from the top down (bird's eye view), do I turn the die clockwise or counterclockwise (the "turn in" & "turn out" instructions are confusing to me) and if so, by how much - quarter turn? half turn? etc. I know it's a very fine adjustment but being a newbie, I just don't have feel to find the "sweet spot".

I also noticed that in some cases, there is some binding where the rim catches on something resulting in a portion of the crimp showing a section of rim rolled inwards like the imperfect seal on a canning machine.

Any suggestions are welcome - thanks!

Fil
 
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Top looking down is the classic "righty tighty, lefty loosey". Clockwise or righty turns the bell of the stem further into the die creating more crimp. Counter cw loosens it sreating less crimp. I would buy a couple more tools as well. Get a pair of calipers and a 0-1" micrometer. Harbor Freight or other imports are OK right now and not that expensive. Make sure that your cases are near the same length, so they are belled in the same place and if you have bought these cast bullets, make sure that they are all the same diameter with the mic.
 
Start from the beginning.

Are you using the 3 die or 4 die set with the Factory crimp? It makes a difference in how your dies are set.

For a bullet ti fall in the flare would have to be so big it would look like it exploded??

Is you sizing/depriming die set correctly?? If not the brass is not sized correctly. Pull the lever so the ram is all the way up. Hold it there, screw the depriming die all the way down until it hits the shell holder.

Do you have the LEE manual? If so on page 74-75 it explains the die set up much more better:D than the instructions that come with the dies.

If not let me know an I will type it all out.
 
Rule3 said:
Start from the beginning.
Click to expand...

^^^ This. I also have the Lee Classic Turret. First time through I didn't get the adjustments right. You need to follow the instructions carefully.

Two common newbie mistakes are too much flare & too much crimp.

IMO a caliper (I prefer digital to dial) is an essential piece of equipment. Much easier when you can say "Measurement X is .xxx"" etc.
 
OK, you size and deprime. Will the bullet fall in the case now? Next flare the case mouth (very little for jacketed bullets, a hair and a half more for lead). Do the bullets fall in the case now? Charge w/powder. Is the bullet falling in the case now? Need to know when the problem happens, what operation makes the case too large to hold a bullet. Also, have you measured your bullets?
 
Please check the things mentioned by Rule 3. Ecspecially that the shell holder is just barely "kissing" the resizing die when the ram is fully extended. Don't do more than " kiss" it as if you put too much pressure on it you could crack the carbide insert.

It would be exceedingly helpful if you could post some pictures of the cases. I would like to see a picture of the following setup if possible: Unflared re-sized piece of brass, flared piece of brass, bullet sat in a piece of flared brass, finished round (all side by side in the same picture if you can). That picture will help us better diagnose the issue and offer better advice.

For loading jacketed rounds, hardly any flare is needed. Same goes for bevel based cast bullets. Flat based cast needs a smidge more flare. You only flare the mouths to prevent the edge of the mouth from shaving off material from your bullet while seating.
 
It sounds like you are flaring the cases far too much. The flare should be barely noticeable, simply enough to allow the bullets to align, NOT SEAT. If the bullet drops to the crump line, you are way off. The flaring die should be turned counter-clockwise to withdraw the die and decrease the flare.....if you are unsure...do a lot and see where it goes.
Start over.... Make a dummy without powder or primer!!!!
#1---size and recap
#2---flare slightly....enough that the bullet will START and remain up-right.
#3---seat bullet to the proper depth(I use 1.142" for 9mm & 125gr bullet)
#4---crimp slightly so that you actually FEEL a tiny bit of resistance.

Now you can start over, this time using primer & powder...

Terry
 
Filibogado said:
Yet when I am mounting the bullet, it just barely goes in and does not go past the case rim relative to the ring around the bullet.
Click to expand...
If you are saying that you can hand seat the projectile to where the cannelure(crimp groove in bullet) is level with the case mouth, then you have WAY TOO MUCH CASE FLARE.

The projectile should just barely sit on the ever so slightly flared case mouth. It is supposed to require the PRESS to shove it in the case.
 
I don't see any mention of resizing the case before flaring the mouth.

To the OP, are your using the resizing die properly adjusted to completely reduce the diameter of the case?

The die must contact the shell holder to completely resize the case.

Let us know, as it sounds as if the case is not being sized or as above, you are using way to much mouth flare.

Bruce
 
+1 for... check resizing die is adjusted for full length resizing and reduce the flare. Also, 9 x 19 should have a taper crimp so aligning the crimp to the cannalure is not important because you are not supposed to roll crimp into it. Right tight, left loose.
 
Short of not resizing cases or having undersize bullets I just could not believe this would happen while reloading 9mm.

So I decided to run a couple of simple tests just to see if this problem can be duplicated.

If the OP is using Lee dies it is impossible to over flare the case mouth.

The Lee die only flares the mouth. It does not enter the case body.It can't flare the mouth any wider that the inside of the die.

I also short resized a case and flared the mouth. When the bullet was seated it will fall into the case. So not completely resizing will result in a loose bullet.
.
I think we have a simple case of not fully resizing or having bullets that are too small in diameter.

Bruce
 
Bullet Falling Inside Case

tappedandtagged said:
Please check the things mentioned by Rule 3. Ecspecially that the shell holder is just barely "kissing" the resizing die when the ram is fully extended. Don't do more than " kiss" it as if you put too much pressure on it you could crack the carbide insert.

It would be exceedingly helpful if you could post some pictures of the cases. I would like to see a picture of the following setup if possible: Unflared re-sized piece of brass, flared piece of brass, bullet sat in a piece of flared brass, finished round (all side by side in the same picture if you can). That picture will help us better diagnose the issue and offer better advice.

For loading jacketed rounds, hardly any flare is needed. Same goes for bevel based cast bullets. Flat based cast needs a smidge more flare. You only flare the mouths to prevent the edge of the mouth from shaving off material from your bullet while seating.
Click to expand...

Here are pictures - pls. note something in one of the dies is causing a part of the case's rim or lip to be dented & folded inwards. I have 4 dies and I need to know which one(s) is causing the problem. Thanks to one and all for your most valued feedback and advice.

Fil
 

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I agree with Weatherby. Your cases have not been resized.

You need to start over and read a reloading manual.

The case mouth is being snagged by your crimp die.

Again this is due to not resizing and over belling the mouth.

The cases in your photo will not feed properly and the bullets will set back upon chambering.

Time for a complete do over. Do not resize cases with bullets already in them. This will reduce the bullet diameter and actually cause the same problem.

Bruce
 
At the risk of repeating myself:)

Do you have the LEE manual? If so on page 74-75 it explains the die set up much more better:D than the instructions that come with the dies.

All will be revealed and become clear.
 
I agree with post #13;

With the ram in full raised position..................
Place the sizing die into the unit and turn it down til it hits the top of the ram with the 9mm collet.............
Now back off the die 1/4 turn and lower the locking ring and tighten the die.

Use same operation for flaring the case mouth with the other dies. A little flare is all that is needed, too much will "Work" the brass too much and they will crack early in their life of reloading.

Hope this helps.
 
It looks to me as you are using a universal decapping die to remove the primers and not sizing. That is the only explanation I can come up with. I suggest you read The ABC's of reloading if you haven't already and at least one manual (preferbably two) cover to cover.
 
You are doing something terribly wrong to have those problems.
Have you read a loading manual or tutorial? ARe you following instructions to your die setup? It is NOT possible to bell the csae mouth enough to have the bullet fall itno the case UNLESS, the bullet is grossly undersized. SO go back to the book, read the section on reloading & die setup & start over.
FWIW, noobs should NOT be using lead bullets for their first handloads, especially in a semiauto. Not much data & lots of little variables to make things less than desireable. I always suggest noobs start with a jacketed bullet as close to their data ref as possible. Much easier to get good results right away. Later on, you can get into lead bullets when you have a better reloading foundation.
 
Are the cases.....

Are the cases being fully resized in the resizing die?? Does the top of the shell holder almost touch the bottom of the die when fully raised? It sounds like the case is not being resized down enough to hold the bullet.
 
Unless you methodically troubleshoot your reloading methods; check each case after each operation, everything is a WAG...
 
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