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Reloading without calipers, not such a good idea

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dutch686

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I have a friend who has been reloading for a less than a year. We have been talking about different recipes, and results and it's been fun.

Yesterday he dropped a bomb on me and told me that he had never purchased a caliper. He has been reloading 25-06, 30-06, and .243 for his girlfriend. I was stunned. I asked how he was setting his cartridge length. He used a factory round as a model. And he "discovered" that factory rounds are always loaded short.

I cautioned him about not reloading anymore until he had the right tools. Good friend, but is not exercising good judgement.
 
Not really. I started reloading in 1967 and was taught to use factory ammo as a gauge, seat the bullet in the cannelure or crimp groove then make sure it chambered. Then if you wanted to experiment with seating bullets out farther you use the trial and error method to get your best groups.
I have a box of rounds with bullets seated, but without powder or primer ,that I use to set my dies with.
I have no idea what they measure. I did buy a dial caliper two years ago to measure the bore of a WWII British Enfield, I wanted to get the correct size mould.
You don't " NEED" a caliper, computer, or digital equiptment to reload. Just think of all of use who started reloading with the $9.99 Lee (whack-a-mole)loading kit. All it had was a dipper and mallet ...and it worked. A lot of people get all obsessed with the measurements and don't understand the what, why and where of seating bullets.
 
I loaded many a reload without calipers in the exact same manner, particularly with rifles. Way too much emphasis is placed on published COL data.

One of the unique things about reloading is the capability to tune rounds for your rifle, not like in commercial rounds where each cartridge is expected to fit the many, many makes and models produced in the same chambering with different magazine and feeding manners.

My .30-06 rounds for my Rem 700 are so long they won't fit in a Win 70, but I get sub-1" groups all day long.

Are calipers and aid in reloading? Yes. Are they a necessity? No. It all depends on what you're loading and trying to accomplish.
 
I also started loading with a Lee Loader back in 1968 or so. After 40+ years of reloading for about 2 dozen different calibers during those years, I have never used a set of calipers, but do own a set. I have reloaded thousands upon thousands of rounds from 380 to 577 Nitro and never had an issue. If the bullet had a canalure (sp?) I seated to that, if not, I used a factory round as a gauge. Never had a problem. To trim cases, I pulled a bullet from a factory loading and used that as a gauge to set how much to trim cases to.
 
I have been loading for rifles and handguns since 1980. I finally got a set of calipers back around 1995. God only knows how many thousands of rounds of assorted ammunition I loaded w/o that little measuring device. It has it's uses. It is not however critical.

If you want to load a round at maximum length, there is a simple process to use. Load a dummy with the bullet smoked/sooted. Insert it in the magazine and feed it into the chamber. Extract the round. If the bullet shows contact w/ the origin of the rifling in the throat, set the seating die down a bit and repeat the process. When there is no evidence of any contact, perhaps set the seating die down just a little bit more to be on the safe side. Now, for that rifle and that load, you have the maximum overall length. If it feeds through the magazine, all is fine. If not, you'll have to continue to set the seating die down until the round will feed out of the magazine into the chamber of the rifle. Or you can load the rounds one at a time by hand.

The above described practice has worked well for me. And when firing a single-shot rifle such as the Ruger No. 1, this practice allows one to load rounds that will make the very best use of case capacity. In fact, allowing the bullet to slightly touch/engrave on the origin of the rifling in the throat at the front of the chamber is a technique often used by target shooters to get the very best accuracy in competition. One does have to pay attention to pressure indications. A bullet loaded against the rifling combined with a heavy/maximum powder charge can result in problems. The freebore commonly associated with Weatherby rifles/cartridges is designed to allow the bullet to begin moving and pressure to drop a slight amount before the bullet begins to engrave on the rifling.
 
Per message #4;

Strange............ my win 70 165gr load will not work in my friends Rem Mod 700. 1st round pulled the bullet and had powder all over the place when he went to empty it.

Just goes to show how each rifle is a little different than the next.

I would be lost with out a instrument to measure oal lengths,
with all the different types of bullets that I load for every thing.
 
I agree that if a bullet has a canellure, I'm going to load to that. But then, when you buy some Berry's plated bullets, or something without the canellure, you're a bit SOL. Yes, you can load without calipers. But, the key to accuracy is repeatable precision. In a world where a few one-thousandths of an inch is important, why would you not have the tools to take measurements?
 
Well you guys taught me something. I never thought about the lee loaders. I would rather have the correct tools, but nice to know that you can work around it.

My fear wasn't for him so much as his gf. When he tells me he doesn't have calipers, and then loads .243 rounds that are near max for her that was a red flag to me.

Thank you for the clarification. I haven't heard from him for a couple of day.s He's a little sensitive so I may have hurt his feelings with my cautioning of his reloading practices. Oh well.
 
dutch686,
As long as your friend is using a factory round as a "go-by" it will be OK. If the round cycles through the action , chambers and extracts without leaving the bullet stuck in the barrel and powder all in the action that takes care of seating depth.

More important is powder and charge weight. That's what will wreck a rifle. With so many powders out there it's easy to confuse some that are named or numbered almost identically.

Call your friend back and tell him what we have said, you found out there is more than one way to do it. You are both right in your methods. Life is short and friends don't grow on trees.
Gary
 
I would not be reloading without calipers. Especially rifle bullets. Some have said that they load to factory length. But are the bullets from the factory round and the one you are loading the same. Years ago when most of the bullets contained lead the bullets did not vary by that much according to weight. Now we have so many different lengths at the same weight that if you load them to the same length you could end up with an over pressure problem. I can see if you are very experienced that you might be able to figure out that certain bullets need to be different lengths but to tell a newbee reloader to not worry about measuring is asking for trouble. Just my 2 cents worth. Buy the calipers they are cheaper than your rifle.
 
NO CALIPERS

must have a keen set of eyes to be able to tell 1/100th of an ". I can barely see the open sights on my SKS with specs on. how do you know when it's time to trim brass or if they are the same length to begin with? not to mention round to round consistency. and what about repeatability, if you load the same caliber for diff guns, or working up a load and experimenting with diff oal's? you must have some kind of a system I suppose. sure you CAN load without them. heck the rockchucker press I use used to be mounted to the tailgate of a pickup and "the owner" would load 44 mags out in the open prairie with no calipers, no scale, no tumbler to clean brass, and they always went bang, and he had all 9.75 of his original fingers. guess I'm more ocd about reloading. when I pick up a box of reloads I do like to see an actual# on the oal line of the reloading label though. I'm not saying you are unsafe, we just do things differently and I am most definitely FUSSY when it comes to guns and ammo and most everything else. at least you ARE reloading.
 
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There are people who get up in the morning, start their "automobile", and go on a 600 mile road trip. No check the oil, look at tires, nothing -- if the car starts you are good to go.

I guess reloading can be done the same way -- right up to the first stuck bolt, blown action, or case thats stuck in an action. Bless their little pea picking hearts.
 
Loading without calipers can be done but for me it is like loading without a scale. I am sure someone out there is guilty of that also.
 
Some calibers are very forgiving

I loaded .38s for years just measuring the powder and crimping in the cannelure. I think the main problem is setting pistol bullets too deeply.

I loaded 30-06 by measuring a factory round, then started using smaller bullets (110/115 grains) that were too short for any comparison to factory. Just make sure the bullet works in the magazine and chambers w/o hitting the rifling.

I'm getting into 9mm now which is more touchy because of the small case and feeding reliability problems.

Now I have a caliper and use it for everything.
 
the calibers mentioned by the op are all "load to the cannelure " calibers for the most part.
He cant screw up the COL enough to do anything catastrophic while hitting the groove.
I wouldnt have him loading match type bullets nor any auto pistol rounds till he's made straight though
 
Dutchboy, you gave great advice. Calipers are a necessity for the reloading bench. Especially when you can buy the cheap digital kind made in China for less than $ 10. I really do not care how many times someone has filled the gas tank in the car while smoking a cigarette, one of these days.......
You can lead a horse to water, but you can not make him drink.

This guy is new to reloading, yes, he MUST have something to measure with, even if he does not know what to measure and what to do with the measurement he just made. He is loading bottleneck rifle cases. He will learn, let us hope and pray his learning is not the hard way, for the sake of that gal that is shooting his reloads. When that case grows to exceed the chamber length for that particular gun and he drops in a heavy load, them we can begin to call them proof loads. Come on people, help the new guy learn the correct way. My 2CW
 
I have to echo the experience of several other posts. Factory loaded ammo was my template. I reloaded for 20 years before I bought a dial caliper. After that I wasted some time measuring things and found that for the most part the caliper isn't that useful but has occasional utility. Certainly not an absolute need.
 
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