Shooting hard cast bullets in rifles

rwsmith

rwsmith

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You guys that shoot cast bullets out of rifles, please help me out.

I have .30 cal., plain base 115 grain RN Penn bullets that I plan to shoot out of a 30-06 at less than 1800 fps.

Penn's web page says that their non gas checked bullets are good for 1800 to 2000 fps w/o leading.

The question: Am I going to have leading with a hard bullet going <1800 fps?

Thanks in advance.:)
 
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I tried and tried to get the 180 gr Penn 30 cal to work in my 3006. Leaded barrels and/or tumbling bullets is what I got for results. Concluded that any velocity fast enough to stabilize the bullet was going to require a gas check.
I've shot a number of Penn's in 44 mag so I have some idea of the speed limit for the alloy. I'd start at 1200 fps and work up till leading became obnoxious.
 
So many factors to take into account on this.

1. Bullet sizing and bore-riding portions in relationship to rifle to be used, rifling type, etc.

2. Powder charges to be used by type and burning rate (higher flame temperatures can melt bullet bases resulting in smearing of lead in the bore).

3. Actual composition of the cast bullets to be used (alloy content, strength, resistance to obturation, etc).

4. Use of any fiber filler, which not only keeps powder charge located in the rear of the case during ignition, but also provides some shielding effect to the bullet base from flame temperatures, etc.

I strongly recommend two excellent resourses for guidance on these subjects:

A. "Cast Bullets", Colonel E.H. Harrison (USA, retired), NRA publications (detailing extensive research and testing of cast bullet performance in various calibers from the 1950's through 1970's).

B. "Lyman Reloading Handbook", 46th edition and earlier. Extensive data on every aspect of cast bullet performance in rifles and handguns.
 
Some notes.
I got separated necks trying to use Dacron tufts in 3006 (bottleneck) cases, instructive and scary to see. Even thin tufts act as very effective hammers.
AA 5744 powder didn't help in this situation. Otherwise 5744 is a favorite powder of mine for reduced loads in 3006 or 300 mag.

Every manual I've looked at specifies GC lead bullets for 3006. I think I know why now.

I found I could buy m80 surplus bullets for close to the same cost as Penn's cast. Problem solved.
 
OP-the only way to know will be to load some up and try them. I've shot lots of cast bullets in rifles, including 30-06. Plain base, and GC. I've never shot any bullets that light, though, usually staying with normal 170-210g bullets.
I have never had any leading with my bullets, but I'm not trying to push them at high velocities, either.
FWIW, my normal rifle bullet alloy is 50% soft lead, and 50% clip-on wheel weight, with about 2% tin added, not exactly hard cast.
 
I'm using hard-cast bullets exclusively for .44 Magnum and 45-70 carbines, loaded to 1600-1800 fps. So far, so good with respect to leading. The worst I've found is a slight staining in the grooves, much like bronze bullets leave, which comes out with normal cleaning. Perhaps one problem is that both rifles are new and not properly broken in (burnished) yet.

I'm using commercial cast bullets (Oregon Trail), which are sized and lubed perfectly. More important, the metallurgy and casting process is tightly controlled. Too much tin and the bullets are hard, but have a low melting point. This can cause extreme leading when the bullet melts due to friction with the rifling. Antimony adds hardness and makes finer grain, but tends to leave inclusions unless carefully fluxed.

I have a degree in chemistry, but would find it challenging to maintain the proper composition. People have been casting their own bullets since the middle ages, so you can get by without speciallized knowledge. I'd like to do more than "get by."
 
You might try the Hornady 30 Cal .308 100 Gr SJ plinker #3005 that has a lead tip and jacket base...............
if the lead bullets don't work out.

Good luck.
 
I cast my own and use hard alloys with gas checks for 2000 fps + and ww with gc for 1400-2200 fps. Plain base ww alloys bhn 12-14 get used @ 1200 fps. I am afrais with a plain based bullet you will not be able to push it hard enough to obdurate with out deforming. That equals leading.
 
Quote: [Hornady 30 Cal .308 100 Gr SJ plinker #3005 ]

This is an accurate bullet in 30-06 with the listed starting powder charge. I shot about 400 of these bullets over a 3-day weekend of prairie dog hunting. Bullets were as effective as .223 Rem loaded with hollow points. Effective range was good to 300 yards before wind and bullet drop reduced accuracy.

I would suggest starting charges of Unique powder according to the Lyman cast bullet data. Don't be concerned with finding the exact bullet in the Lyman data, just find the same weight bullet ± 10 grains. You are looking for a low velocity, low pressure load to test your rifle for leading.
 
You will find that 2 of the most common things that happen with a 30-06 for leading are:

The powder flame cuts the base of the pb bullet.

The wrong size bullet (dia).
 
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