Do your 9mm cast lead bullets tumble?

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hamradioman

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I have trouble with my cast lead 9mm bullets tumbling, no matter which pistol I use. This doesn't happen with my cast .38 spl., 40 cal. or 45 cal. cast lead bullets. I use Lee molds and Lee Alox lube and resize my 9mm bullets to either .356, .357, or .358 diameter; no matter they all tumble.

I use a 50/50 mixture of lead and linotype, and the bullets are hard and can't be scratched. I've shot my 9mm cast bullets in a Ruger SR9, a CZ85, a SIG 239, and a Glock (with a Storm Lake barrel). The 9mm bullets always tumble and keyhole. But I never have this problem with the other calibers I cast.

I use Lee 2-cavity and 6-cavity molds, both round nose and flat point bullets. I've used Bullseye, Titegroup, AA5, and Clays, doesn't matter. I've chronographed the velocities and they are within accepted guidelines.

Any help would be appreciated, and I'll post the results here.

Thanks,

Hamradioman

OK everyone, thanks for your responses.
I'll try a different mixture of 20:1 Tin/Lead;
also, I'll try a higher velocity to see if that will stabilize the bullets. I'm currently using the Lyman "M" die to seat the bullets without distorting the diameter of shaving off the lead at the base. I'll post results, thanks again for your quick responses.

Hamradioman [/B]
 
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Try expanding your sized cases on a Lyman 357 or 358 "m" die before seating your 358 bullets. I'm betting the case is squeezing your bullet down to too small a diameter. Worked for me in my Kahr cm9.

Ed
 
I use a variety of cast-lead bullets in the 9 caliber, some from Saeco moulds but most from Lee. The Lee 124 grain Tumble-lube round-nose mould tumbles out of all my guns. It doesn't matter what I size it to (.356, .357 or unsized) but everything else works fine.

If your lead is soft, that will also cause tumbling at 9 velocities whereas you might not get tumbling out of a .38 using the same mix as it's not going as fast usually.
 
I had that problem years ago and is one of the reasons I no longer shoot lead in the 9mm. I read that the lead bullet at 9mm velocity "skips" across the rifling without taking hold. I also noticed nasty leading. I load lead in all of the other calibers, but no longer the 9.
 
I suspect you are shooting the Lee120 TC TL. That mold is the worst ever designed, IMO. Get a rn or fp standard lube lee mold and see if that improves. TL if you must. pan lube or go with a lubesizer when you can afford it.
 
Waht are you shooting to determine that your bullets are tumbling. When I first started shooting the 45 ACP I thought I had a problem with tumbling bullets from my 625 due to the oblong tears the round nose bullets left in my PAPER targets. Asked the owner of the range about it and he suggested I try shooting a piece of cardboard and even donated a piece from the box for a case of ammo. Nice round holes. The cheap paper used for the targets available at most ranges today produce oblong tears with many bullet profiles and if you want sharp round holes you either shoot wadcutters or semi wadcutters.

Considering the variety of the guns used and the variety of your loading attempts I suspect that the problem isn't that your bullets are tumbling, the problem is that you are mis-interpreting the strikes on your target. Because even the "flat" point 9mm bullets I've seen feature a mostly Round Nose profile and I have a suspicion that they probably tear paper about as poorly as my round nose 45 ACP bullets. I'd suggest you try shooting some cardboard and see what happens with that as a target.
 
Your alloy is way hard. 9mm does not generate that much velocity. I would use wheel weight alloy or lead mixed with tin in a 20:1 ratio. Also go with the biggest diameter (probably .358) that you can chamber reliably. Flat base molds are better than bevel base. One more thing be sure to flare or expand your brass enough to accept the bullet without chewing up the base of it.
 
I had tumbling problems with the Lee tumble lube mold 9s. Switched to commercial hard cast bullets and tumbling and leading problems went away.

I am going to try the standard lube 9mm mold with the alloy I am now using for .38. I have heard of lots of problems with the TL mold bullets.

Edit to add my buddy and I were also having real accuracy problems along with the oblong holes in the target, so I am confident that it was a real case of tumbling, and not just the paper.
 
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Like many other handloaders, I always thought harder was better when it came to lead bullets but not so! If you visit Missouri Bullets' website, you can read an educational piece on bullet hardness and why hard bullets at low velocity cause leading and inaccuracy.

I don't have a 9mm but I do have a 1911 in 38 Super, which uses the same size bullets. I have no keyholing problems at 25 yards using either 124-grain Precision Cast Lead semi-wadcutters or Missouri 125-grain LSWCs.

Ed
 
Have you pulled a seated bullet and measured it? Are you using a Lee FCD? Have you slugged your barrel? Most of the time tumbling occurs from an undersize bullet. Cases can swage the bullets a bit and Lee's FCDs are notorious for swaging lead bullets a few thousandths. I shoot cast lead (?? BHN) in two 9mm pistols and have few problems. In the old, surplus 9mm, the barrel slugs at about .357"+, and my new 9mm slugs at .355"-.356", so I size my Lee 125 gr RNFP to .357" and .358"...
 
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I'm guessing ya went with the "easy" route and got one of the Lee TL design molds.
The issue Ive observed with the TL design is that theres no real band up front to engage the rifling. They tend to skid and misbehave.
Ive bored a few molds using the TL design, but leaving some proper meat up front to engage the rifling ... it works out very well. That lack of meat up front seems to be the TL's only real issue
 
You shouldve bought non-tumble lube design if want them to not tumble. Lol. Mine do handstands and back flips too.
 
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