Does anyone have any experience with using 6.7 grains of HS6 in a .38 Special case with a standard small pistol primer? This info comes from a "name brand" reloading manual, yet other name brand manuals list a top load for standard pressure loads at 6.3 grains of HS6?? Any information would be greatly appreciated!!

You really need to provide all the information, including the bullet you're using, the book you referenced, ...

Did you review what's on the Hodgdon site?

Cartridge Loads - Hodgdon Reloading Data Center - data.hodgdon.com

It's possible one load is +P and one is not.

Start low and work your way up. Hard to go wrong if you follow that advice.

Which load manual?
What weight bullet?
Jacketed, lead or plated bullet?

As a side note, HS-6 reacts much better when set off by a magnum primer. You get a much more complete burn and very low ES and SD numbers.

I load a 158gr LSWC w/magnum primer and a higher charge of HS-6 than anyone here posted and from all the extrapolation I and a few others have done the pressures should be just below the 20,000 PSI limit @19,800 PSI. For my it's an extremely accurate all be it stout in a J frame. (889 fps from a 2" barrel)

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^^^^^^^^^

What ArchAngel said!

Can't speak to a specific load/charge without complete information on the load. I can tell you that HS-6 performance with a standard primer is disappointing. Magnum primers are needed with this propellant.

Good general rule for loading data, when in doubt use the powder manufacturers data rather than bullet makers information.

+1 with what they said !!

I have found out with lead bullets, that you can also back off a .1 or .2 grains if you use a very heavy crimp, also.

I went .1gr over a manuals data and used a heavy crimp with a 158gr lead bullet in my snub nose J frame with Blue Dot that is slow like HS7 and got a reading over 900fps !! I only fired three of the 5 test loads.

I a larger frame this load would be ok but just a little too much for my little revolver. Glad I had a chrony.

Thanks for the replies, the requested information is as follows;

Manual- Speer Reloading Manual #14, page #883, 6.3 - 6.7 Grains of
HS-6, Standard Small Pistol Primer and a 158 Grain LSWC for a +P, 38
Special load. They do not provide any information for a standard pressure load with these components.

Hodgdon website lists 5.7 - 6.3 Grains of HS-6, Standard Small Pistol
Primer, 158 Grain LSWC for a Standard Pressure 38 Special load. They
do not list a +P load for that powder, primer and bullet.

Manual - Modern Reloading, Second Edition, Richard Lee, provides the same information as the Hodgdon website, again no +P load information provided for this load combination.

Has anyone had any experience with the above listed +P load or the Standard Pressure load??

Again, Thanks for your help!!

For some reason all the current crop of reloading manuals use a standard primers in "standard" cartridges like the .38 Special with all powders and use a magnum primers in cartridges named magnum like the .357.

The use a standard primer in the .38 Special w/2400 powder and tell you to use a magnum primers in the .357 Magnum even though we all know 2400 works much better with a standard primer. The same holds true for Unique.

Hodgdon will show HS-6 with a standard primer in the .38 Spl and .38 Spl +P but then tell you to use a magnum primer in the .357 Magnum. Why not use a magnum primer with all HS-6 load because it's a hard to ignite ball powder?

Older manuals used to tell you to use a magnum primer with HS-6/W540, HS-7/H571, H110/W296 and a few others in any cartridge they were used. Same goes for slower ball powder used in rifle cartridges like H414/W760 and a few others too...

Magnum primers have very little to do with the pressure generated in a cartridge and a lot to do with the type of powder they ignite.

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+1, what he said.

I have always had better loads with Ball powders with the use of magnum type primers.

I have even had good results with the cci 250 primer with IMR
powders in my .270 and 30-06 rifles the last past years and
my top '06 180 & 200gr bullet loads come with the win 120 primer
and we all know what type of powder they made.

Some times it pays to try both types to see what your weapon likes. You could cut your groups in half !!

I have f100,cci500,cci550 and wlp to play with my 38 and 357 loads.

good shooting.

Speer #14 manual was published in 2007. The Hodgens data may be newer than that but you might have to call them to find out. I suspect that if you look in older manuals published by Speer you will find some disparity in the loads listed, primers used etc. You need to remember that liability issues have caused many informational sources of loading data to alter what they are publishing. That will account for many loading deviations. Also the locale where the data is gathered will alter the data. Hodgens is in eastern Kansas while Speer/CCI division of ATK is in Northern Idaho. Just the elevation difference will make a difference in their pressure tests and velocity and loads. More than most people realize. The manuals are published so that the data can be used coast to coast and the published data is a guide. They always add the disclaimer to approach maximum loads with caution.

straight stick,

I have chronograph data for the current HS-6 .38 +P data as shown in the on-line Hodgdon "Data Center". They only show 158 Jacketed for some reason. The maximum shown is 6.6 gr. with no primer indicated (as of today!).

This is the load: 6.6 gr HS-6, Speer 158 LSWCHP

Results for 4" barrel:
Primer, Avg Velocity, S.D.
F-100 SP, 740, 39
F-200 SPM, 933, 14
WSR, 930, 8

The F-205 SR would have been used, but I didn't have any. All samples were 10 rounds.

Note that the velocity increased dramatically from the SP to the SPM while the SD was reduced. Also note there is no significant difference between the SPM and SR primer. SD doesn't mean much with such a small sample, but it is an indicator.

I also have date for 2" and 6", same session.

The purpose was to duplicate the FBI Load. This is the reason the Speer LSWCHP was used. With the SP it doesn't come close, with the SPM or SR it exceeds published data for factory. Not necessarily published data, but actual velocities I have obtained with both the Federal and Winchester FBI load.

To answer this question: I think you will find that the loads in different manuals will not necessarily match each other. There will be differences in lots of powder, the crimp on the case, the actual bullet used, the size of the test chamber, whether or not a pressure barrel was used, the temperature at the time of the test, and what method was used to measure the pressure of the load. A few years ago most of the manufacturers switched from using the copper/lead crusher method to the piezo electric direct reading in PSI method. This altered most of the load data to lesser charges because of the pressure readings. All of this could explain what you are seeing.

Does all the above mean that either of these load data are wrong? No, just different. The people who write the load manuals are professional ballisticians and put themselves and their companies on the line so they're going to be safe. Work your way to max loads and you'll never go wrong.

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Your second mistake is comparing data from one manual to another.

Your third mistake is comparing +P to Non +P data.

Your first mistake is not fully reading and/or comprehending that name brand manual you have and starting off with a maximum load.

And primers can make a world of difference between one load and another.

Differences in reloading data from different sources can vary due to many factors.

Normal differences in powder lots and primers , bullet type/design/material , test equipment/methods , atmospheric conditons/temperatures , safety factors determined by data publisher.

If you hit the print button a different page comes up formatted for printing and on the top of the page there is a box which give you barrel length, primer type, trim length and brass used.

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SWCA #3437