Which shape bullet has the least chance of Ricochet in soft dirt?

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lorrinl

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Hello,

I will be working up my first loads for this purpose soon, but at the moment I have started by shooting .38 Special commercial Cowboy action loads (148 grain lead truncated cone listed at about 650 fps).

My goal is a 700-800 fps load of my own to use while hiking in the desert for Jackrabbits. These will be used in my 4" model 66 with a Red Dot sight (a real challenge). Maybe the same load for woods squirrel hunting also.

I went out the first time this past weekend and was a little surprised that shots would ricochet off into the distance even though they were being shot into the soft sand/dirt of the ground (using the commercial Cowby rounds). While I am miles from the nearest houses or buildings, I am not going to take the chance that there is no one else out in the desert riding a dirt bike or walking around.
What shape of bullet should I try when reloading to eliminate (if possible) ricochets? I would guess a flimsy hollow point, but that is not something I have seen available for the .38 special.

Thanks in advance,
Lorrin
 
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Remington Disintegrator

Remington makes their 'Disintegrator' ammo, non lead, frangible in .38 spec. I've only seen it in ammo, not reload components. Finding it will be the tricky part.

Perhaps somebody else makes a frangible bullet for .38
 
I would think that a soft lead at moderate velocities would be less likely to ricochet. Such as the 148 gr HBWC at target velocities in the mid 700 fps. They do make a good rabbit load.
 
I think HBWC or DEWC would be the least likely to ricochet. Both can be very accurate.
 
Plus 0ne on the WC. The sharp "edge" would tend to dig in to the dirt.
Maybe even better would be a reversed HBWC, as then there would be an even sharper "edge". Accuracy would likely suffer.
I have been thinking about the same thing for shooting into the water from my boat. Haven't tried anything yet but the WC looks the best.

Best,
Rick
 
Frangible rounds would fit well in the role you are asking a bullet to fill.
 
I shold have mentioned that the shots may range up to 75 yards

I should have mentioned that the shots may range up to 75 yards or so. Think a WC bullet could be accurate to that distance? I know that the "bad" BC of a WC would cause it to slow down quickly...

Thanks for all the replies,
Lorrin
 
I think a frangible bullet is the best option. I think a solid projectile of any shape will ricochet; perhaps a flat pointed or hollow based one has a lower chance of multiple "bounces", but it may still hit something unintended.
 
It is entirely possible that the velocity on the rounds you were firing was so low that they didn't penetrate the ground very much and "bounced" rather than penetrated.

At least, that's a thought...
Don't know if it's correct or not.

Frangible like the others said, would be the only 100% sure alternative.
 
If you get some, use the factory Frangible bullets.............

If you can find the bullets, reloaders have found that they will crush/break with a heavy crimp and can break going down the barrel.....and due to the increased friction need higher velocity than the standard 38 special load.

I think the 148 wc is a great idea................your just going to have to sneak up on the rabbits a little more.

50 yards is a heck of a long pistol shot off hand.
 
I've never seen any lead, or jacketed lead, bullet that will "bite" into the dirt, regardless of velocity, they just don't work that way. They may ricochet slightly differently but they will go somewhere if they impact the ground at an angle and all will pose a hazard. Science would say that the lower the momentum, the safer they would be, but Mr. Murphy isn't into science.

I've never shot any frangible ammo so I can't say if it's safe or not. I have tried home made, pre-fragmented ammo, but not for ricochets.

You could try making your bullets of a lighter substance to reduce the danger of the ricochets, but then your trajectory would look like an egg toss competition.
 
I'm with Andy on this.
Harder bullet and higher velocity for more penetration should help.

But more importantly, with the 75 yards you're describing - - that can be a very flat angle to ground-- at your gun's level, which may cause your bullets to even skip on a bed of moss. Maybe that you just have to call those areas --- no shoot zones.

But in that case you wouldn't hear that cool ricochet sound effect like you hear in the movies.:D
 
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So this is a really interesting topic. In short, to minimize ricochet on impact the bullet needs to do the following:

  1. Penetrate the target (target = the actual target or the ground)
  2. Be deformed on impact with the target (ideally this would be a complete dissentegration)
  3. Transfer significant energy to the target
  4. Have high velocity (to accomplish 1 and more importantly to penetrate not deflect off the ground).

That being said, the frangible ammunition is probably the best way to go to minimize ricochet, followed by a bullet with a high cross sectional density and high ballistic coefficient. Once bullets start tumbling or behave in any way less like a true projectile the chance of ricochet will increase as energy transfer on target will be decreased.

I would think though that the risk of your ricochet round traveling very far is minimal but the best solution to this is to find someplace with a backstop to shoot at.

Here are some papers that are really interesting regarding the physics of bullet ricochet:

http://www.ciar.org/ttk/mbt/papers/..._from_deforming_plates.zukas_gaskill.1996.pdf

https://www.ncjrs.gov/App/abstractdb/AbstractDBDetails.aspx?id=140066
 
Slow bullets tend to bounce, so the best way is to go at that low a vel is a soft lead hollowpoint.
 
S&W45Colt said:
Frangible rounds would fit well in the role you are asking a bullet to fill.
Click to expand...

Frangible (powdered copper pressed into a bullet) is intended to come apart when it hits something HARD. Like steel. ICC has video of their bullets sawing through 4x4 posts, so I don't think bouncing off the ground is going to cause them to come apart.

Prefragmented rounds like Glaser are designed for that purpose, but they're not available as components, are expensive, and typically don't shoot to the same POI as conventional ammo.

If there's no safe backstop, you shouldn't be shooting.
 
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I'm glad someone finally mentioned that frangible bullets have to hit something hard to break apart.
 
I have no experience with centerfire rounds, but I used to shoot turtles on my pond with a .22 rifle. Normal long rifle rounds always ended up in the next county. Even shorts would glance off (I put one through my metal barn.)
I finally started using CCI .22 CB's. They would penetrate the water, rather than glance.
 
If you are firing at 75 yards then frangible is the way to go. If not why not a pellet gun?
 
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