Anybody know the approximate brinell hardness of Speer and Hornady swaged lead bullets?? I use a lot of these and am getting into hardcast bullets that are around the 15 bh range. How do they compare??
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Anybody know brinell hardness of swaged bullets.....
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Beemer-mark
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Swaged bullets are approximately 10 brinell
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I once bought some swaged bullets and told they were BH 8-10. They leaded the heck out of my gun and I will never use them again. I wound up melting them into 2 to 4 pound ingots and using them for weights in my workshop. I wrapped them in electrical tape to keep them from getting on both my hands and material I was working on. They have served me well for 20 years as weights but were terrible as bullets!
Swagged bullets are mostly pure lead, and are not intended to shoot but slower target loads. In a 38 Special if you keep the velocity under about 700-750 fps you will get a very accurate and non leading load. If yo want to get up over 800 fps and into the 900 fps range, you need hard cast bullets. Loose rule of thumb, if you can cut a crease in a bullet with your thumbnail it's too soft to push hard.
2ndAmendmentNut
Well-known member
Swaged bullets are made by mashing pure or almost pure lead into what ever shape is needed. Naturally they will be very soft around 5-8 BHN at least as far as I can tell with my goofy Lee hardness tester. Cast bullets will almost always be a lead alloy made up of lead, tin and other metals. The tin and other metals improve the casting properties of lead and make it harder. While it is natural to assume hard lead will work better keep in mind the key to no leading is that the bullet be bigger than the bore (or chamber throats when it comes to revolvers). An undersized bullet will lead the barrel period, does not matter how hard it is. Bigger diameter is always better. Its important to measure your bore or chamber throats to make sure your cast bullets are at least 0.001-0.003" larger.
I know this is an old thread but I found this to be very interesting and have CORRECT hardness for lead bullets.
5-7, 8-10, 15+ ........... enjoy
Corbin Bullet Swaging Lubed Lead Bullets
5-7, 8-10, 15+ ........... enjoy
Corbin Bullet Swaging Lubed Lead Bullets
fredj338
Well-known member
I would doubt you get even 8bhn with the swaged Speer or Hornady bullets. Cast will allow you a wider load range, but they work in low pressure applications like 38sp or 45acp target loads. In 9mm or 40, you would have to run pretty soft loads to keep leading down IMO.
years back I asked Speer if they would tell me what the hardness of their .38 special, 158gr Lhp might be and they replied that did not need that information and it was not available.
It will finger nail scratch, though, unlike "Lazer cast" Lswc.
It will finger nail scratch, though, unlike "Lazer cast" Lswc.
fredj338
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If someone wants to send me 3, happy to test them on my CT tester.
Old thread, I know, but I was wondering: Didja' ever get to test any of these swagged bullets Fred?
I did the search that turned up this thread because I'm wanting to try making up some "FBI loads" and I have picked up 2 different bullets to try.
I've got a box of 100 swagged 158gr Speer 4627 LSWC/HP
and an almost full box (95 each) of generic 158gr cast LSWC/HP
I'm guessing the Speer are around 8-10 BHN and the cast are around 15 BHN.
So I'm thinking I'll want to load the Speers at around 750 fps and the cast at around 900 fps.
If I wanted some high performance (swaged or cast) lead hollow point ammo I would load them full throttle, leading be damned. It's not like you would be shooting an all-day session with them. Shoot a cylinder or two, then run a bronze brush with some Chore Boy strands wrapped around it through the barrel and you are done.
rockquarry
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Swaged bullets should be just like cast, regardless of BHN; if they "fit" they will shoot accurately and won't lead the bore. Of course the right powder for the right pressure and velocity are very necessary factors that complement "fit". Takes some experimentation to get everything right.
Cast bullets need to be groove diameter except for Marlin Microgroove barrels, whence they should be .001 to 0.002 oversized.
Cast bullets must also be loaded fairly hot in order to abdurate properly. The pressure (12,000 psi or more) will crush the bullet enough to conform to the rifling. The advantage of swaged HBWCs is that they will expand to fit the rifling with very low pressure. However if you exceed about 600 fps, lead will line your barrel like Christmas tinsel.
Semi-wadcutters are just as accurate as swaged wadcutters, more accurate at longer range and higher velocity, and punch clean holes, but they have more recoil when loaded properly.
I load cast bullets to magnum pressure and velocity, with no leading up to about 1800 fps in a carbine. With a gas check, you can load up to about 2250 fps for loads that are within safe pressure limits.
Cast bullets must also be loaded fairly hot in order to abdurate properly. The pressure (12,000 psi or more) will crush the bullet enough to conform to the rifling. The advantage of swaged HBWCs is that they will expand to fit the rifling with very low pressure. However if you exceed about 600 fps, lead will line your barrel like Christmas tinsel.
Semi-wadcutters are just as accurate as swaged wadcutters, more accurate at longer range and higher velocity, and punch clean holes, but they have more recoil when loaded properly.
I load cast bullets to magnum pressure and velocity, with no leading up to about 1800 fps in a carbine. With a gas check, you can load up to about 2250 fps for loads that are within safe pressure limits.
BruceM
Well-known member
Yah, but if they're soft but undersized, they'll "obturate" and seal the bore. Just ask the guys from the left coast.
What a crock!
Bruce
Unless a soft swaged bullet.....
Unless a soft swaged bullet has a deep conical indent or HB wadcutter type base, it can't be counted on to obturate. An HB wadcutter is even further limited because the skirt can easily be blown off at higher velocities. Soft bullets for slow target loads. I keep even soft SWCs well below 1000 fps.
Unless a soft swaged bullet has a deep conical indent or HB wadcutter type base, it can't be counted on to obturate. An HB wadcutter is even further limited because the skirt can easily be blown off at higher velocities. Soft bullets for slow target loads. I keep even soft SWCs well below 1000 fps.
BruceM
Well-known member
Exactly!!
Thanks for re-enforcing that concept.
I don't know of any hollow base cast bullets either.
Bruce
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5 years later
Swaged bullets are still around 8 to10 BHN
Your lead hardness may vary.
Swaged bullets are still around 8 to10 BHN
Your lead hardness may vary.
ChuckS1
US Veteran
A properly sized lead bullet won't lead a bore, even at relatively fast FPS. The problem is that most commercial casters only offer bullets in a "one size fits all" option and most shooters don't know how to properly measure to know what size they really need.
Learn to cast your own and you won't have this problem.
Learn to cast your own and you won't have this problem.
