I've gathered some really good info from the Bulleye/Unique thread and the more recent one about using 2400. So, now let's talk about board member's experience with Power Pistol.

I haven't been able to find any load data for this power outside the manufacturer's web site - and they only give load data for using Speer GBHP (Golden Bullet Hollow Point I presume?).

Anybody got any other sources for load data - preferably with more 'generic" bullets, like LSWCs or JRNs?

I love Power Pistol. I go through quite a bit of it.

You might want to tell us what cartridge you plan on using it with if you are seeking load data.

It is fantastic in the 357SIG for the light projectiles and the 45 Super for any weight.

Hornady manual
Lyman Manual

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Still Running Against the Wind

Love Power Pistol, especially for fast 9mm loads. But, I don't think I'd use it with light or lead loads.

Personally I'm loading 4 calibers

380 acp
9 mm
38 special
357 magnum

And as much as I would like info for those specific calibers, for my own use, I was also hoping this would be more of a general discussion thread about all of the uses forum member have found for it.

Very good suggestions, no doubt. A little more detail would be appreciated though.

For example, does the Hornady manual focus on loads using their bullets? Does the Lyman manual have more "generic" data? Or are they both equally thorough?

the hornady manual only lists their bullets, the lyman lists a variety of manufacturers & a good number of lead bullets

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Steve

Most of my data for PP has been garnished from Brian Pearce's articles in Handloader Magazine for the .45 Colt and .44 Special. For the 9mm Lyman's new manual number 49 I think,its their newest one. I did not believe it was possible but PP has pretty much replaced Unique for most of my reloading needs for the .45 Colt and .44 Special.

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Stay safe people!

It's a great powder for many calibers in full/+P loads. I use it a lot.

Speer's manual has some Power Pistol listings too & yes they use their own bullets.

Your question seems too broad...have you gotten any reloading manuals? The more the better.

Power Pistol is listed in some of the small caliber specific manuals that are out there. I have used a fair bit of it and like it very much.

A couple links to copies of the different alliant reloading manuals. I just print the pages I use (pistol/cowboy action/rifle)

alliant guide from 2000

http://www.castpics.net/LoadData/Fre.../Alliant00.pdf

alliant guide for 2003 (I like this one the best/easiest to read format)

http://www.castpics.net/LoadData/Fre.../Alliant03.pdf

alliant guide from 2005 (have a hard copy of this one)

http://www.castpics.net/LoadData/Fre.../Alliant05.pdf

All of these have a huge amount of data strait from alliant with all their pistol powders. They are an excellent source for:
power pistol
american select
the forgotten herco

The other thing I like about these alliant guides is that they use a 5.7" bbl for their testing & I've found that my results mirror theirs with several 6" bbl'd revolvers.

Anyway those guides have allot of data for the power pistol & the limited data in the 2012 guide still uses the same charges/loads as what's in those links above.

hope this helps

forrest r

My Lyman 49TH & the Lyman Cast Bullet 4th Edition lists many loads for PP. I like it as it gives more velocity for +P loads. I load it for 38 special, & 9mm. It meters well & it's a bit flashy. You might search this forum and see that a lot of people like it & have some data for it. There is a new powder from Alliant called BE-86.

I have been using it in 38 Super. A Zero 115 JHP and PP is a most accurate combo.

I use it for 9mm and .45 ACP revolver loads where I want highest velocity. It works very well with medium weight and heaviest bullets. I have found that it works well with cast bullets too, specifically the 255 gr. bullets in .45 ACP. In the 625s that haven't had the chambers chewed away with excessive chamfering you can get very close to .45 Super ballistics without the need for Super brass.

Dave Sinko

I've loaded quite a few 9mm rounds, Bayou Bullets, Precision Delta, Hornady XTP. It's worked great, no issues, I've loaded some 38 special with it also.

Perhaps a bit more understanding is needed: for the most part, bullets are bullets. You can pretty much interchange FMJ data for JHP data. You can use plated bullets (depending on manufacturer) with mid-lead (or low FMJ) data. Lead bullets load with their own data.

Bullet profiles don't generally affect the load as much as they do the OAL and caliber selection (357sig, for example, needs a different profile). Powder charge weights don't vary as much when dealing with different bullet profiles, in other words.

As to Power Pistol, I prefer it for my 357sig loads, or fast 9mm loads, or anything else that I want to go fast. However, it has HUGE muzzle flash, is very loud and thusly, I don't like it for indoor shooting ranges or any kind of SD/SHTF loads.

As has been mentioned, there are sources of data for this powder. You may have to do some 'inference work' when swapping bullet types and/or profiles. As always, start low and work up...

If you want to impress (not sure that's the right word) some folks, shoot a full load of Power Pistol through something that's ported!!

I've just started using PP a few weeks ago in .38 Special so far. I've chrono'd my loads and they are right along Alliant data. In my 4" 586 I'm seeing 889 fps avg for 10 rounds with very low ES and SD at 5.4 gr. and moving into the +P range @5.8 gr. which is .2 below max I'm seeing around 970fps. This is with 160gr. LSWC hardcast.
I didn't have enough of the 5.8's to chrono in my 2.5" model 19 but the 5.4 loads were giving me just at 800 fps. Everything I've tested has had SD's below 15 and some single digits. Surprising. What amazed me most was the bottom end at 4.7 gr. in the 586 was grouping around an inch at 50 ft. from a rest and running about 660 fps. This is one nice powder and I can't wait to do some more experimenting with it.
On that vain, I'm wondering if anyone has tried it in .32 S&W Long and their results.
Stu

I totally agree, 357SIG with a light projectile and a case full of Power Pistol behind it is a real "ATTENTION GETTER" when fired from the ported P229 Sport. Especially at an indoor range.

That's pretty much what I was thinking might be the case. Everybody wants to promote their own products - which is understandable. However it sounds like the Lyman is the better source for more generic data.

I have the Lee manual that came with my press, and I just got the first of the 4 LoadBooks I ordered for the calibers I will be loading. It is the 380 ACP book and in the Alliant section it has a recipe for 100g RNFMJ and Power Pistol. Almost exactly what I'm looking for since I'll be using Xtreme RN copper plateds.

If the other 3 caliber LoadBooks are as good, I should be in fat city! Though I may still end up buying the Lyman manual too.

This I understand. I also understand the concept of using low-end FMJ data for the copper plated bullets I'm using.

This is where I get a little nervous since the depth that the bullet is seated - and therefore the OAL - varies with different profiles, and if the bullet is seated too far the pressure is increased due to the volume inside the casing being reduced. As I understand it the calibers with the shorter cases (380acp an 9mm in my case) the pressure increases are more pronounced due to their having smaller case volumes to start with. Seating the bullet too deep in these small volume cases causes a proportionally greater reduction in case volume and a correspondingly larger increase in internal pressure.

That's my plan - start with 90% max loads and work up in 2% increments (90, 92, 94, 96, 98, 100). I doubt that I'll even get to the 100% load since I'm loading for target practice & plinking.

Not interested in impressing - just in good consistent and solid performing loads - but good to know!

Great stuff Forrest! The latest version doesn't have much info - pretty much only Speer GDHP load data. But these older versions you posted - presumably published before Alliant bought Speer (or vice versa?) have a lot more data for a broader variety of bullets/weights. For example the 2014 version, for 380acp only has 90g Speer GDHP loads for half a dozen different powders. The 2005 version you posted has 88g, 90g (2 different profiles), 95g, and 100g, load recipes for half a dozen different powders.

The same is pretty much true for the other calibers I'm interested in. Basically, if Speer doesn't make a bullet in a given weight/profile, they don't include it in the manual anymore. Kinda sucks that they threw out good data that they had previously compiled, just because it doesn't promote the products of one of their sister companies.

While I understand the business reason for doing it - they want us to buy their bullets to load with their powder - it still sucks to discard good info like that. To me it would be better to expand the selection of bullets they offer instead. Not everyone who wants to buy their powder wants to be limited to a selection of only one 90g HP bullet for loading 380acp...

Anyway, thanks for the download links Forrest. I have all the load data I need for Power Pistol now!

I understand & agree. The short auto cases do need a tad more attention when working up to a full/max/+P load, or just using a new style bullet. When I load my autos, 9mm/40S&W/45ACP, I make the COAL as long as possible without going over the "max. OAL" for that cartridge and still pass the "plunk" test, to maximize available volume. With auto bullets (no cannelure) you have this flexibility, but not revolver bullets with cannelures. Some gun brands have more leade/freebore available which minimizes any issues (my S&W 3rd gens. have a generous amount) with this.

One thing I started adding to my reloading notes, in addition to COAL, is the seated depth of the bullet in the case. When I seat my first bullet of a session I subtract the bullet length outside the case from the bullet's OAL (BOAL) for this. You can then set your caliper for this depth measurement to satisfy yourself that the bullet's base is not unduly compressing the powder by using the caliper's guide/depth extension, not the jaws, to check the available depth, rather than just eye-balling it. It's surprising the differences between brands/styles/weights.

"Plunk" test? I understood everything you wrote except this term - not one I'm familiar with...

I've used PP in 9mm, .38 SPL and .357 Mag. I only use it for peppy loads and with jacketed bullets. I find it to be a very good powder for these purposes.

If you don't have a case gauge, you can pull the barrel on your pistol and you drop the load into your barrel. If it "plunks" right in and sits flush with the end of the chamber, as it should, that passes the plunk test. I find it easier to just buy the L.E. Wilson Max Cartridge gauge. If it fits flush in the Wilson gauge, it meets SAAMI specs and will chamber in any auto-loader for that caliber.
Stu

Oh, OK, those Wilson gauges sound like a handy thing to have -
something one can buy at Midway, or Titan, or Cabelas I presume?

Yes BC38, Midway is where I get mine.
Stu

The data for swaged and hard cast will be different as softer swaged bullets max at about 1000 fps to prevent leading.

Stu already gave you the short answer, here's the long one:

This is how you do a "plunk test" but for me it's more important, and accurate, how the assembled "test" round sounds, and feels, when you drop it in the barrel's chamber rather than where the rim is in relation to the hood.

Make sure you've added a minimal (taper) crimp that's just enough to remove any case flare from the sample round, otherwise the results are deceiving. When you drop the round in the removed barrel's chamber, it should make a nice metal to metal clink/plunk sound. That's the case mouth hitting the chamber's shoulder, where the cartridge headspaces on. If the bullet is seated out too much (long) then the bullet's ogive hits the rifling & you don't get the same sound, but rather a dull thud. Additionally, if you rotate the round in the chamber it should be nice & smooth (case mouth on chamber shoulder). If it's too long, it'll feel rough because the bullet's ogive is rubbing against the rifling. (Remember, eliminate any flare before checking.)

Initially, seat the bullet out farther than needed & slowly adjust your seating die deeper, doing a plunk test between adjustments until you get the proper results. Then set your final crimp & double check the results before continuing loading.

It doesn't take long to get the right adjustment & once you record the OAL", for that exact bullet, you can use that measurement next time & forego the plunk test, if you like. Make sure it's at or below the max. OAL" for that cartridge.

Also, different guns have different amounts for freebore/leade (space between the chamber shoulder & the start of the rifling), so one gun that can handle a max OAL" assembled cartridge may not be ideal for another, due to bullet shape, so double check if in doubt.

I've never saw the need for a case gauge as the barrel/chamber already acts as "custom" one that you are trying to match. Also, I have no idea how they could indicate if your particular gun's leade would interfer with the bullet you were loading for. It only takes a minute to remove & use the barrel in question.

Hopefully this helps.

Good detailed explanation Bluedot. What if you are loading for more than one gun in the same caliber? Obviously you can use the barrels from both to do the test, but disassembling multiple guns to test each bullet profile seems like a bit of a pain. I presume the gauges are spec-ed to match factory loads, right? Seems like one for each of my auto calibers would be a worthwhile investment - as long as they aren't too expensive. I'll look into it and keep your tip in mind.

EDIT: I just checked Midway, the gauges are $23 apiece. Not too bad I guess. The odd thing is that they have them for 38 special and 357 magnum too. Since they are both rimmed cartridges, why would anybody need the gauges for those calibers? They don't headspace on the shoulder like an auto cartridge. Measuring the OAL with a caliper is pretty easy, and should be good enough for a revolver, fight? So why would anyone buy them? OCD?

When I documented my guns' chamber specs/dimensions I also noted the leade size. My S&W 40 autos have generous leade size & are very close. Of my 45 ACPs the Colt 1911 has the smallest leade so if it "plunks" okay in it, the others are okay as their's are larger.

For revolvers, just stick 'em into the cylinder, if the load fits, it fires. COL really doesn't matter for a revolver as long as the cylinder will rotate. Pretty easy to open a cylinder vs: taking the barrel out of say, a 1911. I load for 3 different 1911's (two wad guns, one hardball gun) and if the loads fit the Wilson they will fit the gun. Everything else I own is a revolver so they come with their own gauges :~)
Stu

Dillon has case gauges for $16.00. https://www.dillonprecision.com/#/co...gun_Case_Gages

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Minimize the variables

I started using PP for my 38+P loads, before I knew it I was using it in the 45ACP, 40S&W, and even in some light-bullet 460 Rowland loads. I got a deal on four 4-pound kegs a couple years ago, and those are now gone, so I must be using a lot of it. It's my all-time favorite powder in the 40 S&W, and also serves well in the 10mm.

As mentioned, it's flashy, and not just a little. I don't mind, I only load it in practice ammo, and I'm used to it. But it can be impressive on gloomy days or indoors!

Ditto !!

.

45 Super in 325NG using Power Pistol

Nothing could be further from the truth. 99.9% of the shooters out there couldn't tell leading from antimonial wash if there life depended on it. Nor would they be able to read a bbl if leading actually occurred. Namely:

leading @ the beginning of the bbl/forcing cone
leading the length of the bbl
leading @ the muzzle end of the bbl

They've been shooting lead bullets doing over 1000fps for 90+ years now, you might want to brush up on your reading. Heck the lowly 22lr blammo everyone buys @ wal-mart (federal 510's) is a lead bullet doing 1235fps.

Try reading about what a guy named keith designed/tested. Here's a link to a 1929 lyman mold catalog (page 90) listing the "keith" style bullet, the 429421.

http://www.castpics.net/subsite/Hist...al_Catalog.pdf


That bullet & his testing (well over 1000fps) aided in the development of the 44mag.

On a side note:
On the same page (90) right under the 429421 listing is another keith bullet, the 429422. It's the same bullet as the 429421, it just has a hollow base. They wanted a lighter, flatter shooting bullet of the 429421 design. A couple of the 429422 hollow base molds that I own.




A picture of a 429422 mold with the origional hb pin, the pin is round & was supposed to take wieght out of the bullet.



A mold with a new pin made designed for target work/accuracy.



That pin isn't much, only took 15 minutes on a lathe/drillpress/tap to make. But I have the tools/ability to make & test different designs until my hearts content.


The 429422 bullets are now 220gr hb target bullets with the new reshaped pin.



It pays to read, by thinking a lead bullet will only do 1000fps. Is taking away a whole world of bullets/bullet designs.

forrest r

Wow, another 229 Sport.



First time I have ever seen someone else with one.

I do agree power pistol can be a bit flashy in the sport.

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SWCA 1646

Interesting. IIRC Power Pistol was known in the industry as "Bullseye 84" before it was introduced commercially, I wonder if BE-86 is similar, with flash inhibitors? I guess I now have another powder to look for!

We have several P229 Sport owners here on the Forum. At the moment I have three P229 Sports and one P229 Sport Stock. All my P229s are in 357SIG.

rwsmith is referring to keeping soft swagged lead projectiles below 1000

He is 100% correct in his statement.

Your reply is a reference to cast projectiles and has ZERO to do with his comment

You need to read about the difference between a swagged lead projectile and a cast lead projectile.

Thank you for pointing that out, I read his statement differently. Now it makes sense.

I apologize to rwsmith for reading your post wrong. With a little help it's spot on.

forrest r

I use it in 10mm. 10.5gr. under 240gr Nosler hollow point. For use in 610 revolver only. Do NOT shoot this load in a semi auto!

Just in case you are citing my comment about soft swaged lead bullets being limited to around 1000 fps I made no mention of harder alloys that can be pushed far beyond that. I load lead bullets for my 30-06 at about 1800 fps.

rwsmith I apoligize again for my mis-understanding of your post. That's all I can do is say I'm sorry.

forrest r

I thought it worked fine for 9mm. I tried it in .40 S&W and .45 ACP and found the muzzle flash to be very distracting. One guy on the range thought somebody was taking pictures with the flash on.

Also a Power Pistol user for 357Sig, 40SW, 38Spl, and 45acp. A versatile economical powder, also not bad for accuracy. I find the flash, noise not bad at all but I'm only around 85% max. My 357Sig on a Sig P229 has more kick then the S&W 686+ 4" with equal powder loads...

Flashy, depends. I load 9mm with 5.0 grains of PP, and a 125 grain LRN, I only see the flash on cloudy days or at dusk, other wise I wouldn't even notice it. But again, I am on the low side, I imagine if I upped the charge it would show itself.

I like Power Pistol. Its easy to load accurate loads in 9mm with PP. Yes if you load 6 grains and 115 it is load, flashy and accurate. If you want a milder load...try a Bayou 147 FP and 4 grains of PP. Tame, accurate and 100% function in every gun I have tried it in.

PP makes a nice full velocity load in the .38 special too. The longer the barrel the better.

It tried some today in 38 spcl with 158 grain LSWC. It was fairly accurate, but somewhat snappy. Of course, I have gotten used to the low recoil of PB in .38. I was using 10% under max, but may try some loads even lower.

I've noticed it has a substantial shock and flash compared to other powders.

I don't think this is a bad thing. In fact, I find it endearing.

Very accurate in my M28 altered to .44 Spl. I used 8.0 gr under a 200 gr. cowboy bullet (std. for .44-40).

Larry