I am looking to upgrade from my original RCBS powder measure. If I simply want the best, is it the Redding or something else?

Thanks, fuzzy

I think many would say Harrells PMs are among the best if not the best.

For pistol powder I think the RCBS Uniflow (and Hornady equivalent) are nearly as good as it gets. Don't be surprised if the new one isn't much of an upgrade.

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Mark

Anything wrong with your RCBS ? If you extra $$ you wan to burn you can always check out Harrells.

I also love my Lyman 55... She's an oldie but a goodie

Redding has some higher end measures but in a normal price range I feel the Lyman #55 can't be beat...

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Freedom is never free!!
SWCA #3437

+1 for Harrells

Depends on what powder you are measuring, but ordinarily, Harrells is about the right answer. For long sticks like IMR, the cheap Lee or the Belding & Mull are better, and the Prometheus, of course, is best. But for most powders, and for ease of changing settings, Harrells has it.

All powder measures fill an adjustable opening with powder. Wouldn't be overly concerned with machining tolerances etc. of the dispenser. Do not care for any that must be knocked" to get consistent charges, as only knocker I own is on my front door.......

I have used both Redding and RCBS measures for my handgun loading for many years but all my handgun recipes became more accurate when I started loading them on my Dillon XL650. I don't think an expensive loader is the answer; instead, I credit Dillon's powder measure with the improvement because EVERY time I check my powder charges, they are exactly spot-on instead of being a touch light or heavy now and then.

Extruded (stick-type) powders can yield some inconsistency due to the cutting involved but one of the best ways to make your drops more consistent with any measure and any powder is by using the same stroke on the measure with a one-second pause at each end of the operating cycle. That way, the drum has the best chance of filling and emptying exactly the same every time. I've always operated my RCBS measure that way and do so with the XL650 but the Dillon measure is even more consistent.

Ed

How many use an aquarium agitator on the powder measure? I read that tip here, and I've thought about trying it out.

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Common sense isn't so common.

I have a RCBS uniflow and a Lyman 55. Once set both will usually vary no more than .1 grain. I tend to stick with ball powders (WST, 2400, H335) as they work best for powder measures. Hate adjusting the uniflow as the lock ring tends to stick. Like adjusting the 55 but hate the clamp mount.

I use four Reddings I've had at least twenty-five years. In the past forty or so years, I've used others marketed by Herter's, Lee, RCBS, and Harrell. All those are gone. While there may be other measures that work as well as the Redding products, I doubt they are any better for most purposes.

Who makes the best truck, car, etc.. I know what I like, but I haven't tried them all.

As posted above, spending more money doesn't always mean an upgrade.

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GOA
USA Shooting Supporter

Same here. The only one that stuck is the Redding.
The micrometer is a great time saver that has to be used to be fully appreciated.

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-jwk-
US Army '72-'95

Harrell makes the best measure and I have used one for many years when shooting benchrest. However, I'm not aware of any drop tubes that will work with cartridges larger than about 30 caliber. The diameter of the drop tube as it enters the measure limits the flare on the cartridge end of the drop tube. Harrell is not willing to address this problem and Sinclair doesn't have a solution other than to use a funnel. Disappointing.

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Dick

I use a Harrell's for rifle only, and it is a high quality powder measure. Very positive click adjustments and consistent throws. With that said, my RBCS Uniflow is to handgun loads, what my Harrell's is to rifle loads.


Got a couple admirers on here that would love to get their hands on my RCBS Rockchucker Cover, so I sneak a pic in whenever the opportunity arises. Ain't happening boys...

I agree my old Lyman #55 is dead on all the time.

Ive been happy with my uniflow for 30 years

I apologize for posting without first reading the thread but I’m short on time.

Belding and Mull’s old measure that required handling each charge in a black powder style adjustable tube is more accurate than all the others measuring long stick and large flake powders. It was the most commonly used measure by bench rest rifle shooters. Unfortunately it is also about the slowest measure and of course has no application on progressive presses.

The best is this: http://www.natchezss.com/product.cfm...prodID=rc98923 Once you've used it, you'll never want anything else.

Dead on everytime......... I think you need a better scale

+2 Harrell I have used most of those mentioned over the last 40 years and the Harrell is the most accurate consistent powder measure I have ever used.

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Len

I have used RCBS Uniflows and several Reddings for many years and got a great deal on a Harrells at a gun show a couple years ago. I like the repeatability with the Harrells and haven't used the Uniflows or Reddings since. I am not sure I would pay full price for a Harrells, but I am very happy with it.

I just researched this topic myself because I found a good supply of VV N310 and wanted an accurate measure to dispense small charges.
I went with a Redding 10X and loaded 250 rounds of 45acp recently with 4 grain charges of N310. From start to finish it never varied. It wasn't that it didn't vary up to a 1/10th of a grain, but it simply didn't vary. 4 grains from start to finish. I believe one thing that helped the consistency is the baffle inside the holding tube.
Liked it so much decided to purchase a second Redding, the 3BR to use with rifle cartridges.
I did look at the Harrels but did not like the way they mounted on the bench. I bought the optional stand for the Redding and can run an entire loading block under the measure so I can do 50 rounds at a time.
As always, different strokes for different folks but I am happy with my decision to go with the Reddings.

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Tennessee

Ok very consistent .

Now I believe you!!

Many years ago the automotive supplier I worked for decided to start using Statistical Process Controls on their production processes. As a result all of the Manufacturing and Engineering staff received 60 hours of training in Statistics and it's application to Manufacturing. Yeah, in 1982 we were a bit late to the "party" but it took about 25 years before the Big 3 started to realize that Deming's concepts were actually both useful and usable. Anyhow for a bit more than 30 years I've been a believer in Statistics and how useful this branch of Mathematics can be.

So, the first thing I did after purchasing a RCBS Competition Powder measure was to start running some tests on it using a variety of powders on hand. Method used was a 30 piece capability study for each powder and plugging the results into a calculator with Statistical Functions. Scale used was an RCBS 502 which I've learned how to "read" to the nearest 0.05 grain by the deviation from center. Beyond that 0.05 deviation I simply moved the poise as needed. So, 30 charges were weighed to the nearest 0.05 grain increment and the results recorded then plugged into my calculator. I'll also note that I have only checked pistol charges at this point. Someday when I'm loading up some 308 I'll chop some logs and do a study on 2495 and 4064.

A note on the RCBS Competition measures. First, there are two different size drums, a Handgun drum for charges between 0.5 and 40 grain charges and a Rifle drum for charges up to 110 grains. Second, a Baffle is supplied with the kit. Third, a RCBS Micrometer adjustment screw is provided for each drum size. Basically, the Competition Measure is simply a Uniflow that has been equipped with all the refinements that have proven to make the Uniflow easier to use and more accurate. The only limitation I've observed concerns the use of large flake charges with very light charge weights, because IMO the bore for the Handgun drum is still a bit too large to be really accurate with a large flake powder with charge weights of about 4 grains or less. However, with a powder such as Accurate # 5 I would expect this setup to throw extremely consistent charges.

Results. Note, the Standard Deviation calculated was the one for Population, or in SPC terms, the greek Sigma. This should result in approximately only 1 in 3 million "flyers" that fall outside the +/- 3 Sigma normally accepted tolerance range, otherwise known as 6 Sigma Manufacturing Controls.

Charge weights depended on the caliber/bullet weight but charges ranging from 5.0 grains up to 17.5 grains were checked. I'll also note the thrown charge was double checked by throwing 10 consecutive charges into a pan and the total weight checked. So, for a 6.5 grain charge the measure was adjusted so that 10 throws weighed in at 65.0 grains.

Unique - Standard Deviation for Population was 0.05 grain. This means the predicted total deviation would be +/- 0.15 grain.

Longshot - this was the first tested powder and the first run yielded a Sigma of 0.08. The second run yielded a Sigma of 0.05 and I suspect the drop was due to the powder measure becoming "conditioned". So, I'm saying that the continuing Sigma for Longshot will be 0.05 or less and the total deviation will be +/- 0.15 grain.

Accurate # 5 - Standard Deviation for Population was 0.016 grain. This means the predicted total deviation would be +/- 0.048 grain. I'll also note that the RCBS didn't "leak" one single grain of this very fine grained powder.

IMR SR7625. Standard Deviation for Population was 0.012 grain. This means the predicted total deviation would be +/- 0.036 grain.

Vihtavouri 3N37. Standard Deviation for Population was 0.014 grain. This means the predicted total deviation would be +/- 0.042 grain.

Hodgdon H110. Standard Deviation for Population was 0.014 grain. This means the predicted total deviation would be +/- 0.042 grain.

End result is that the RCBS Uniflow can be a very consistent powder measure when it's kitted out as the Competition Measure. This means that you first and foremost make sure you have a Baffle for your measure. This acts to limit the column of powder in the funnel area so that changes in the hopper level don't effect the weight of the thrown charges. BTW, I did test to empty and did not observe any significant change until the hopper was actually empty. Second, that Micrometer Adjusting screw makes dialing in your setting Extremely Easy because 1 tick on the scale is in the range of 0.02 to 0.07 or so grains depending on the powder.

Good news is all these parts are available as accessories. Midway seems to have the Baffles in stock on a continual basis and the Micrometer Adjusting screws do come into stock several times a years. In addition you can even purchase a Handgun drum for the Standard larger uniflow. Bottomline, if you have a standard Uniflow you can kit it out as a Handgun Competition measure for a price. You can also simply purchase the Handgun Competition measure from Midway for about 121 dollars. BTW, the total for a new Handgun drum, Baffle, and Micrometer screw is about 87 bucks so buying a complete new Competition Measure is not a bad idea, you end up with two measures on your bench instead of one you have to keep changing over.

One of the Harrell measures.

I am sure the Harrel's is a great measure, but all the rotary measures work pretty much the same. The diff is likely the smoothness of operation, yielding more uniform reults. I have an old RCBS Duo, love that thing, very smooth & repeatable. I bought a Uniflow for teaching my class & find it lacking. I finally found another DUo, NIB on e-bay, bought it in a heartbeat. The idea one would even care about accuracy better than 1/10gr is laughable. Unless you are weighing every bullet & every case, just too many other variables to matter.

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NRA Cert. Inst. IDPA CSO

My old Pacific just keeps on going and going.................
but I don't think you can find any of these any more.

Good info above..........
might end up to what is in town or the best deal online.

You might want to add a trickler if you want the loads dead on but it is not really needed.

First, please accept my apologies. Had to go out of town at the last minute and could not check the forum for a while. Now, more importantly thanks for some great info. I expected to hear about the redding 10x, but i have never heard of the Harret.
To answer the question of my needs, my complaints about my Uniflow is that some variances are as much as .3 grains, and I would like more consistency than that for light .38 and .380 auto charges.
Thanks again to all who chimed in.
fuzzy

Fuzzy, your uniflow can do much better that that if you properly equip it.

Step one, get the Baffle from Midway. Once you see how it limits the amount of powder in the funnel you'll understand why I consider it essential.

Step two, get the Handgun drum. Because the Rifle drum that is considered "standard" has a metering bore that is just too large to accurately meter a handgun charge.

Step three, get the Micrometer Adjusting Screw. Until you actually use this adjuster you just won't understand how convenient they make this measure to use. If you look at the front of the stand my measure is mounted to you would see a bunch of stickers listing screw settings, weights, and powders. So, I pour in the powder, set the screw to the charge weight of a favorite recipe and check it on the scale. That has me within a tenth every time and it only takes another throw or two to bet the measure set Just Right.

Now, I did not run any capability studies on the uber small charges typical for the 380 but I did test more typical charges like that for a 38 special. Such as a 5.5 grain charge of Unique and the Sigma was 0.05, not great but good enough for a predicted range of +/- 0.15 grains. As for the accuracy of real world versus a Statistical prediction, last weekend I loaded up some 165 grain Gold Dots with a 7.5 grain charge of Longshot. Since this is a rather hot load I ran every charge on my scale for peace of mind and the total variation was in line with the predicted range +/- 1.5 grains. Yeah, I did scoop off some powder off the heavies, you try and fight the urge to do that when you see a charge running heavy on the scale.

Now some thoughts on your 380 loads. First and foremost, if you can find some use a powder such as Accurate #5 because it meters VERY well, my test study indicated a variation of +/- 0.04 grain with a 10 grain charge. If you have to use a powder such as Unique you should plan on running the charges over your scale. If the world were perfect RCBS would offer a third metering drum size for Small Handgun with a metering bore in the range of 5/16 inch in diameter.

I like my RCBS. It is consistent to 1/10 grain. For the type of handloading I do, I can't ask for more. I was given an old Belding & Mull. I would like to get it refurbished and give it a try.

Upgrade? I'm still using my 1975 model Herters powder dropper to great effect.

If you have the Uni-Flow with the large cylinder, before you ditch it, consider buying the small cylinder kit RCBS P/N 9004. $35 at Midway. Since I changed it, mine measures every bit as consistently as my Dillon....

(That's right, Bob, I said it!)

Sorry had to quote this to keep it in writing

I was thinking of getting one of the micro adjustrs for my RCBS. Not that I can't do it with the short one. I'd like to be able to record in my notes what the dial was set at, so I can get there quicker. Plus I think it the bigger wheel would make it easier to tune in.


You got people that say I have been using such and such for 30 years. Sure I can use such and such too. Doesn't mean there isn't something better or simply easier. Doesn't mean I don't know how to use such and such, just things can be improved on.


I added a baffle. I dunno, but I think it did help a little, or made it so it ws not so sensitive to powder level in hopper. Yes I know I can keep filling it and keeping it at the same level will make it more consistent.

I know how to hand choke a car and had done it for years, doesn't mean that fuel injection isn't better. I watched a 12" black and white TV for years just fine. I have slept on the ground and ate cold beans too.

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Beware the man with one gun.

+1 Also. If price isn't a concern.

Joe at realguns did a comparison that worth reading. Btw, Harrell didn't do too well.

Harrell's. Go to a benchrest match and count the number of Redding, or RCBS measures you see. If you do see any it is a newby using it. 98% of the shooters will be using a Harrell's. Now do you need a Harrell's for plinking and/or hunting ammo? No, your RCBS or a Redding will do just fine. Same for most pistol target loads. If you buy a Redding you probably will not find it is much more accurate than your RCBS, if any. For, the conventional measures, technique is more important for accuracy than the brand name.

Scooter,

Thanks for all the detail. That many specifics really helps. BTW, I do use the pistol drum but I am still using the standard adjuster. I will have to give this much thought. Price is really not a big factor. My loading bench has been fairly complete for awhile, but I am going to really concentrate heavily and handloads this year, so spending good money to take my equipment to the next level will be well worth it.
You guys are simply the best.
fuzzy

The single most important modification for accuracy is a baffle. As SCOOTER123 describes, it interrupts the powder column so that changing levels don't affect the drop weight. Secondly, it eliminates bridging, which creates air pockets in the funnel. Large, flat grains, like Unique, are especially prone to bridging. Fine cylinders like VVxxx flow like water, and meter accurately regardless of the mechanism.

You should have both cylinder sizes for the RCBS, depending on the throw volume. I use a micrometer adjustment for pistol loads, because the adjustments are finer, and reproducible when changing the setup.

Knock the handle gently at each end of the stroke, to fill and dump more consistently.

Flake powders, like Unique, seem to meter better in variable depth machines, like the RCBS. Finer powders and lower weights meter better in variable area machines, like the Harrell, Lyman or Dillon. Leave the handle in the dump side and fill on the upstroke. If you leave the measure exposed to the hopper, powder tends to settle if you stop for more than a few minutes. I have no choice with the Dillon 550B press, so the first two drops after an extended pause are always heavy.

Some have said they won't have one they have to "knock"...this isn't the powder measure as much as it's the power you're using that requires this. For pistol loads I can throw Power Pistol faster with more consistency than 700X...the flakes require a tap or three more to settle vs. the granular. I know you know but thought I would throw it out anyway.

I'm sorry but I just won't use a powder that is fussy about measuring out. Maybe during this great powder famine I've used a couple but as a normal I see no more need to use burning corn flakes for powder. Accurate ball powders and those marketed under Hodgdon and I'm sure several more measure out and flow like water. No need for tapping, polishing, aquarium gear, or saying a prayer each time you swing the arm. There may be that rare time when you want to use a rifle powder like Varget for a special reason but these days it's hard for me to justify the need to keep using hard to measure powders. And even the cheap and easy Lee powder measure can drop consistent amounts of ball powders. I have one set up for an exact amount of AA #9 for .357 magnum and that ammo is pretty darn accurate even with my shooting skills. Bottom line, it's usually the powder and not the measure that is off...

trying to load 1oz slugs with pearl scot shotgun propellant green tag?
I do not have the data can any one help

I am loading 12ga slugs with pearl scot but do not have a data chart can any one help