I have a 6" 686 and just can't seem to get this thing to shoot. I'm not a great shot but at ten yards it's shooting 4" patterns whereas with my 1911 I can keep them in a generally respectable cluster. I tried shooting off a rest at 25 yards and half weren't even on paper.

I've tried several powders in 38/357 with the classic 158 SWC and nothing so far.

What bullets and powder do you have?

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I'd like to agree with you BUT

AA#7, Red Dot and Clays. Bullet is 158 grain plated SWC by Xtreme. Using 38 and 357 casings (aa7'in latter only).

Never had much luck with plated bullets in my 357s.
Try some good cast 158s.
My 681 favors two 158 loads:
5.5 Universal for 1129 FPS
or
5.0 231 for 880 FPS

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-jwk-
US Army '72-'95

The swaged soft lead bullets that Speer and Hornady make are very accurate when shot with a fast powder at low velocity (about 800 fps-900 fps or a little more. You SHOULD be able to make a good target load with the Red Dot. The Alliant #7 is geared more toward hotter loads. I hope the gun is ok, no misalignment or anything like that causing the bullet to shoot out of kilter.

I haven't shot plated yet either, maybe someone will come along with some advice on them

but I'm going on the same track as rwsmith, try the Hornady 158 grain SWC, they are soft swaged lead and shoot great (crazy accurate) out of a S&W 686 with Unique for me and I believe rw shoots them in a 686 also.

The Hornady manual has load data for Clays for that bullet.

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I'd like to agree with you BUT

Is your barrel fouled?

David

Put about 300 rounds through the gun and cleaned it every time. I'd have to say no.

How does it shoot with factory ammo?

Use bullets that are .001 over size, that would mean .358 in your case.

A good hard cast bullet in .358 over 5g W231 should work well.

Use the same bullet for magnum loads.

Haven't put anything through it yet that's done markedly better than what I'm getting with these handloads. Admittedly I've only shot 125 sjhp Rems (.357) and Fiochi 110 and 158 grain specials.

This is a VERY astute question. Because it can help determine if your problem is the shooter or the ammunition. If you want a suggestion for a factory ammo that is particularly accurate I can recommend the American Eagle 130 grain 38 special FMJ. I used this to try and determine the actual accuracy potential of my 620 by using this ammunition in combination with a 2X handgun scope. At 50 yards I was able to put 4 rounds into 7/8 inch. BTW, it took me 6 solid weeks of practicing twice a week to get to that level and I still don't think I actually managed to actually shoot to the potential of the 620.

As for what can cause shooter issues, there are lots of things that can impede our accuracy.

First up is Eyesight, with iron sights a 4 inch group at 10 yards for me is doing well. Because I can no longer focus on handgun sights and if they are basic black I can't even see the sights.

Second up is poor trigger skills. As I found out when doing that 50 yard trial any error on the release results in a flyer. If you are jerking or slapping your trigger you'll get flyers even at a measly 10 yards.

Third up is your usage of your Sight Picture. With iron sights it's absolutely critical that you use the exact same sight picture for every single shot. This means the front sight is perfectly centered in the rear notch and that you have the sights aimed at the exact same point on your target for every single shot. BTW, one common sighting error people make is they will actually sight on a previous hit on the target. If you do this with sights that aren't 100% perfectly registered you'll just end up chasing your hits all over the target.

Finally, there is the good old Flinch. Everyone who shoots a centerfire handgun will eventually find they've grown a flinch. Resign yourself to it happening because it will happen at some point. I've been fighting a tendency to flinch so long now that I can now feel it when the "Yips" start to set in. The solution for me has been to slow down and concentrate in achieving The Perfect Release, which requires achieving a totally relaxed state of being when the gun fires. If you find this sounds a bit Zen like it's because it is. It's also a distinctly relaxing exercise if you do it right.

Now for some accuracy loads. One load is the above American Eagle. Another is a 357 Magnum featuring a 140 grain Hornady XTP loaded with 17.5 grains of H110. Because I'm a half blind old fart I normally keep a J Point reflex sight mounted on my 620 and when I'm not flinching I can shoot cloverleafs at 10 yards with this load offhand. I'm also testing a load featuring 13.5 grains of Accurate #9 with this Hornady bullet but the jury is still out on this particular load.

I appreciate the lecture but am not getting this behavior with a Ruger Redhawk, Kimmy 1911 or Ruger Mk1 standard on the same day at the same distance. Maybe the gun just doesn't fit me. I'll trade it for one of those new Sp-101 4.2" if anyone wants.

Scooter, thank you for taking the time to explain and suggest possible solutions to Z-Max's woes. I found your post interesting and informative.

You should be able to see if the revolver likes either.......

1. jacket bullets or the lead bullets.
2. 38 special target loads or
3. High Vel. 357 loads.

At 25 yards, without jerking the trigger......
or putting the barrel on the rest........
with muffs and safety glasses......

one of these loads should hit close to where you are aiming.

My 686 is a tack driver in 38 and 357 loads.
Sorry you are having problems.

Z-Max,
Are you shooting double action or single action. I have found it's best to shoot single action off a rest when testing new ammo loads just to tale the human factor out but if you can shoot your other 2 guns well it's probably not you.

Is this a new or used gun? If it's used can you ask the previous owner if there was an accuracy problem? It's possible the rifling is copper fouled, the barrel or cylinder throats are out of spec or a bunch of other factors that can ruin accuracy. I rarely suggest slugging a barrel but you just might have to slug the barrel of your gun if everything else is right.

If it's a used gun there night be copper fouling or even lead in the rifling. Give a good copper cleaner a try and if the patch comes out Blue after a good soak you have a copper problem. It's not usual in a handgun but it's possible.

Good luck and please keep us posted...

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Freedom is never free!!
SWCA #3437

Re: OP. With respect, been shooting S&W revolvers since 1980. Been shooting L-frames since they were introduced to the market. Never had one that would not hold under 2.0 inches at 25 yds. fired from a rest w/ good ammunition.

You results are atypical of what is normative for this revolver. Would strongly suggest that you first look to possible basic issues, i.e., thoroughly clean charge holes in cylinder and bore and throat. Make sure that any lead, etc. is removed. Make sure that the rear sight is firmly screwed down and that the blade is not loose. Make sure the grips are tight on the frame. Also review your own basic marksmanship skills as relates to SA and DA shooting. This is suggested simply because I have had individuals take some of my revolvers and shoot them with poor results only to express surprise when I take the same revolver and ammunition and produce very good results. Spend time firing the revolver in dry-fire practicing with particular attention to sight alignment, etc. Use a standard bullseye target as it will give you a definite point of aim. Common silhouette type targets, etc. are a poor choice for precision shooting.

Begin your shooting at no more than seven yds. Look to see if groups are round or if they demonstrate vertical stringing, etc., such as would be the result of inconsistent shooting practices. Once you are producing round groups at seven yards that are at least as good as what you commonly obtain with other handguns, then move out to ten, twelve, fifteen, twenty and twenty-five yards, repeating the same procedure.

Hope you are able to diagnose and correct any problems that you might find either with the revolver, the ammunition or with your own shooting technique. It would be helpful to have someone who has demonstrated expertise shooting handguns/revolvers shoot your revolver w/ the types of ammunition you are using. That would let you quickly find out if the problem is the revolver/ammunition or if you have issues of technique to which you need to give attention. HTH. Sincerely. brucev.

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<><

Did you buy the gun new or used? How does the crown look? A 6'' 686 should be a tack driver.

Well Z-Max apparently you're an experienced shooter and are having success with other handguns so I'd try (as suggested) several different kinds of factory rounds after you're sure there's no mechanical problem and if you can't get the gun to shoot then I'd trade it off. In my experience S&W revolvers will usually out shoot the operator so what you have is not typical. There's too many good shooting S&W's out there on the market to waste time with a problem child.

LOL, this is counter to the last poster. DON'T give up on the gun easily. You rarely hear of a 'bad' experience with a 686. It would have to be a real anomaly because there are thousands of reports from satisfied owners. If it doesn't work for you, ok, trade it in, but it may be a mistake. One good things is that you shouldn't have much trouble selling it.

Ah Grasshopper, one can not tell the accuracy of a revolver by one person shooting and one bullet only. One must try other bullets and or powders. Factory ammo as mentioned perhaps.

Plated bullets are, well plated. Try some lead bullets.

4" groups at 10 yards, something is not right in the world.??

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Still Running Against the Wind

The gun is new with less than 500 rounds. I've tried a few brands of factory but will get another box when I'm at the store tomorrow. This is what they have in stock: Blazer 158gr .357, Magtech 158gr FMJ 38 and PMC 130gr FMJ 38. Any of those sound like it'll print?

I'm fully willing to admit there might be something about my technique that's off and I'm not the best shot on earth but with my other handguns I can always call shots. If I fling one, I know its me. But with this Smith I can sit there Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance, let that trigger slowly touch off and watch the hole appear 3" from the place I'm aiming. I've had snaps in this thing since new and have dry fired untold times. Since the DA pull is so heavy (makes my Redhawk feel like a full on custom) I always do accuracy work single action.

I really would like to get it up to snuff. Not quite ready to throw it in the river yet.

I've had good results with 14gr of 2400 under the Xtreme plated 158gr SWC.

Hope you're not putting magnum sized powder charges in those .38SP cases. Could ruin yours or somebody else's day if they found their way into the wrong gun...

No for the love of God I'm not. Why would you even assume I was? I stated right up there at the top AA#7 in mag cases, clays and red dot in .38 sp. With that information what can one extrapolate?

So again, my gunstore is getting in the following. Are any of them decent performers: Blazer 158gr .357, Magtech 158gr FMJ 38 and PMC 130gr FMJ 38

Thanks for your time.

Not according to some famous gun magazine writer

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Still Running Against the Wind

Magtech and PMC make fine ammo. It is also very easy to reduce the DA trigger pull by changing out the rebound spring, I do not mess with the main or hammer spring as you do not want light strikes, If you have someone else that can shoot, have them try it . If it works well for them or with factory ammo you will have your answer, If it is new and still will not group you can send it back to the Mothership.

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Still Running Against the Wind

Z-max,
Sorry you're having trouble, and I can see that you're frustrated. However, I have owned several 686's and can assure you that they are capable of much better results than you are getting.
I have shot numerous groups off of sandbags with a 686. Many went under 1" and some were around 1/2" at 25 yds . The loads were Speer 125 gr hp or Winchester 140gr silvertips over H110 or 296.
I presume you have checked the obvious and that your front and rear sights are secure. The rear sight assembly on mine worked loose more than once. There are two small fine threaded screws that hold the rear sight housing to the frame and they can back out under recoil. I finally got tired of that and a little red loctite took care of it. Also take your finger and see if there is any side to side movement on the rear sight blade.

If you have eliminated mechanics, my best guess would be the plated bullets are to blame. You mentioned the powders but not the charges. Plated bullets have a reputation for not holding together well, especially if pushed supersonic.
I have a custom built competition gun that will group under an inch at 50 yds from a machine rest. The one time I tried plated bullets, it scattered them all over an NRA slow fire pistol target.

Any of the factory ammo you mentioned should get you under 2" at 25 yds. Let us know what you find.

Tls

Excuse the **** outta ME. You didn't say how much.

It is not your powder.

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Hook686

Again....check the crown. There have been a few that have escaped the factory with a bad crown and thus shoot poorly. If this is the case, S&W will fix it free. As for the trigger, dry firing and shooting will improve it and will accustom you to it. Sometimes the new rifling process leaves the bore a tad rough and it takes several hundred rounds to smooth it out. My last 686, a 5'' Talo took about 500 rounds downrange before it could match my other 686s for accuracy. As for technique, shoot off bags or a rest and compare. Rest the gun at the point where the barrel meets the frame and shoot SA. Don't worry about accuracy, just how tight the pattern is, sights can always be adjusted once a pattern is established.