Hey, guys! I just bought a 9mm conversion barrel for my glock 23 and now I'm having problems reloading for it. I bought 500 125 grain small ball .356 bullets and, using an OAL of 1.13", all failed to chamber and jam the gun. I found that the maximum OAL I can use is about 1.05". The problem I have with that is that I cannot find any load data for something that short. I have 3 rounds loaded with 3.9 grains of SR4756 and an OAL of 1.05" ready to test. Anyone know if that is a safe load? Know any other sources for data using SR4756 on these "SmallBall" bullets? Thanks!
Missouri Bullet Company 125 grain Small Ball?
- Thread starter Me239
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According to the MBC website and the box of bullets sitting next to me, they have 124 grain LRN Small Ball, not 125.
I use 4.2 grains of HP-38 with a COL of 1.100 and it feeds fine in my P-226 and 6906. Longer than that, the bullet engages the rifling in the Sig but not the 6906. I've used as short as 1.092 without feed/chamber problems.
Have you done a "Plunk" test with that 1.13 OAL--or anything less? I rarely use stated OALs in load data as they may or may not fit any individual gun. The 124 gr MO bullets have a long bearing surface, and at 1.100 look long. They certainly could be seated deeper, powder load permitting.
What brand conversion barrel are you using. I bought a Storm Lake barrel for my Glock 30 but it is nowhere near as reliable as the Glock barrel with lead reloads.
I use 4.2 grains of HP-38 with a COL of 1.100 and it feeds fine in my P-226 and 6906. Longer than that, the bullet engages the rifling in the Sig but not the 6906. I've used as short as 1.092 without feed/chamber problems.
Have you done a "Plunk" test with that 1.13 OAL--or anything less? I rarely use stated OALs in load data as they may or may not fit any individual gun. The 124 gr MO bullets have a long bearing surface, and at 1.100 look long. They certainly could be seated deeper, powder load permitting.
What brand conversion barrel are you using. I bought a Storm Lake barrel for my Glock 30 but it is nowhere near as reliable as the Glock barrel with lead reloads.
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Hey, SMSgt! I've done "plunk" tests (1.04" loads) with the barrel and they don't quite freely fall out, but are easily pulled out. The barrel is a Lonewolf 40-9 conversion standard length. I loaded 15 rounds at 1.13" only to jam my gun up when I tried loading one in. I discovered the barrel likes 1.05" when I put a projectile in an expanded case and pushed it into the barrel until it head spaced correctly. I've made loads at 1.04" with 3.5 and 3.9 grains, and two others at 1.045 and 3.3 grains. I plan to test these in a couple of days. Oh, and the bullet weighed 125.4 grains on my scale, so I just said 125. Thanks!
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The MBC 124 gr small ball (RN) has a very fat round nose. It will not fir my CZ's without reducing the COL by a lot. I use a shorter COL and just reduce the powder charge a bit. More of the start load for whatever powder. My guns have light recoil springs so the function fine.
This one:
Missouri Bullet Company
If you use the 124 gr Parabellem (cone nose)it is pointier and should not be an issue but I do not care for it accuracy wise.
This one:
Missouri Bullet Company
This one:
Missouri Bullet Company
If you use the 124 gr Parabellem (cone nose)it is pointier and should not be an issue but I do not care for it accuracy wise.
This one:
Missouri Bullet Company
Disclaimer: Do this at your own risk. I am not responsible, just ask my Wife!
For MY gun the COL is 1.070.(yes not a mis print)
For YOUR gun only you can determine.
What is IMPORTANT is that you reduce the powder charge accordingly. COL in test data is based on that test only and whatever gun or test barrel they used. Pressure especially in a 9mm or a 40SW will increase as you seat it shorter.
The pressure is related to the powder charge along with the depth of seating the bullet. So if you seat deeper, than there is less volume for the burning powder gas to expand, so therefore you need to reduce the powder charge.
Take your barrel out and do the plunk test. Start at at a long length and gradually reduce it until it plunks in and out. Do not forget to put a slight taper crimp as it spaces off the mouth of the case, but in guns with short chamber or leads or odd shaped bullets the bullet is hitting first.
Per Hodgdon the min for a 125 gr lead CONE nose is 4.2 gr seated at 1.125. If you look at the listed Hornaday action Pistol (a jacket bullet) they seat that at 1.069 and start with 3.9
So if it was ME I would use the 3.9 and only load a few to see if it cycles the gun OK.
This is a 1911 barrel but the technique is the same.
For MY gun the COL is 1.070.(yes not a mis print)
For YOUR gun only you can determine.
What is IMPORTANT is that you reduce the powder charge accordingly. COL in test data is based on that test only and whatever gun or test barrel they used. Pressure especially in a 9mm or a 40SW will increase as you seat it shorter.
The pressure is related to the powder charge along with the depth of seating the bullet. So if you seat deeper, than there is less volume for the burning powder gas to expand, so therefore you need to reduce the powder charge.
Take your barrel out and do the plunk test. Start at at a long length and gradually reduce it until it plunks in and out. Do not forget to put a slight taper crimp as it spaces off the mouth of the case, but in guns with short chamber or leads or odd shaped bullets the bullet is hitting first.
Per Hodgdon the min for a 125 gr lead CONE nose is 4.2 gr seated at 1.125. If you look at the listed Hornaday action Pistol (a jacket bullet) they seat that at 1.069 and start with 3.9
So if it was ME I would use the 3.9 and only load a few to see if it cycles the gun OK.
This is a 1911 barrel but the technique is the same.
scooter123
Member
As noted, one option is to use a lighter powder charge and load short. While this in usually safe there is a small risk of pressure spikes that can rupture a case. Typically this is not life threatening but a case rupture is almost universally rather painful.
The second option is to contact the barrel manufacturer about this issue. IMO you have a barrel that wasn't machined completely to SAAMI specifications for the Chamber and Lead. My hunch is that your barrel was machined specifically for Semi-Wadcutters and using any other bullet type may be problematic. Since it shouldn't be too difficult to re-machine the Lead in your barrel to a profile that works with a variety of bullets I would suggest you contact the manufacturer about having it machined for general use. Yeah, you will in theory lose a bit of accuracy but most of us can't shoot a handgun well enough to ever see the difference.
The second option is to contact the barrel manufacturer about this issue. IMO you have a barrel that wasn't machined completely to SAAMI specifications for the Chamber and Lead. My hunch is that your barrel was machined specifically for Semi-Wadcutters and using any other bullet type may be problematic. Since it shouldn't be too difficult to re-machine the Lead in your barrel to a profile that works with a variety of bullets I would suggest you contact the manufacturer about having it machined for general use. Yeah, you will in theory lose a bit of accuracy but most of us can't shoot a handgun well enough to ever see the difference.
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I loaded some of the 125 gr. small ball 9mm and they jammed both of my M&Ps (full size and compact) until I seated them shorter. They would feed fine in my SW9VE(sigma) as it feeds anything I put through it. I only shoot FMJs now.
I've contacted the manufacturer (Lone Wolf) and was informed that there is a fee of $30 to refinish the chamber to allow "custom loads". I believe the barrel is SAAMI spec. and it fed 115 grain FMJ with no hiccup. The problem lies within the MBC bullet's round nose. I've seated them to a length of 1.04 and 1.045 and hope to test them tomorrow. I'll post results here in hopes that is might help someone else someday.
You have put a taper crimp on the rounds yes?? If the flare is not taken out the case will hang up.
It is the bullet from my experience with them.
Yes, I've tried light all the way to heavy taper crimps and they're still sticky. I think it's the bullets because they're sticky being dropped into the bore alone.
I too have a bit of problem when setting COL with lead bullets as they are sticky. Before I do the Plunk test, I wipe the bullet with a paper towel. A dummy rounds that drags/sticks will now drop right out.
Doesn't seem to affect live rounds as they're on a one-way trip anyhow.
Doesn't seem to affect live rounds as they're on a one-way trip anyhow.
RANGE REPORT! Tested the loads a couple of days ago. Here are the results.
Load #1
3.3 grains of SR4756
1.04" COL
Accuracy poor, little report, and failed to cycle the gun
Load #2
3.5 grains of SR4756
1.04" COL
Better accuracy, cycled weapon, and failed to lock the slide back
Load #3
3.9 grains of SR4756
1.04" COL
Best accuracy producing a .25" group at 7 yards, cycled flawlessly, locked slide back, and mild recoil
I'm going with Load #3! Hope this helps anyone else!
Load #1
3.3 grains of SR4756
1.04" COL
Accuracy poor, little report, and failed to cycle the gun
Load #2
3.5 grains of SR4756
1.04" COL
Better accuracy, cycled weapon, and failed to lock the slide back
Load #3
3.9 grains of SR4756
1.04" COL
Best accuracy producing a .25" group at 7 yards, cycled flawlessly, locked slide back, and mild recoil
I'm going with Load #3! Hope this helps anyone else!
Somerled
Member
Look at the IMR SR 4756 data at Hodgdonreloading.com for the 125 grain LCN. That will come closest to the Missouri Bullet small ball. It shows a starting load of 4.2 grains and an overall length of 1.125". You're seating your bullets deeper, which increases the pressure somewhat. So you're probably now just getting up to the pressure to properly cycle the pistol with 3.9 grains.
I've shot thousands of the Missouri Bullet 124-grain small ball in an 1911 9mm and my Rock River Arms 9mm carbine. With the 18 Brinell rating, they don't lead even in the 1-10" twist carbine barrel. I seat them to 1.10" oal. Missouri Bullet suggests approximately 1.08.
Sometimes those drop-in conversion barrels are not exactly "drop-in". And like most anything new, a barrel's doing to need a little breaking in. It sounds like you're getting there! Good luck!
I've shot thousands of the Missouri Bullet 124-grain small ball in an 1911 9mm and my Rock River Arms 9mm carbine. With the 18 Brinell rating, they don't lead even in the 1-10" twist carbine barrel. I seat them to 1.10" oal. Missouri Bullet suggests approximately 1.08.
Sometimes those drop-in conversion barrels are not exactly "drop-in". And like most anything new, a barrel's doing to need a little breaking in. It sounds like you're getting there! Good luck!
peterthefish
Member
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Somerled
Member
Sure hope so, Peter. It came up on the new posts, and I commented on it.
As several others have suggested above, just start low.
Yes, a deeper seating depth may increase pressure, but that's more of an issue when the bullet sets back when chambered and results in greater pressure in an already near maximum load.
Just start low and work the load up carefully at whatever OOL you need to get the round to chamber and for reliable feeding.
Pressure tends to be lower with lead bullets than with jacketed bullets in general, so you'll likely find it'll work just fine while being well under the maximum average pressure.
Yes, a deeper seating depth may increase pressure, but that's more of an issue when the bullet sets back when chambered and results in greater pressure in an already near maximum load.
Just start low and work the load up carefully at whatever OOL you need to get the round to chamber and for reliable feeding.
Pressure tends to be lower with lead bullets than with jacketed bullets in general, so you'll likely find it'll work just fine while being well under the maximum average pressure.
I'll tell you .......
I just went through the same thing with another bullet that was not defined as 'small ball' but apparently has a similar profile. You have to load them SHORT. 1.06" works in my tightest chambered, shortest leaded barrel. You may have to adjust the load down for pressure. My bullets catch on the rifling of the barrel and either won't chamber fully or if they do they get stuck in the rifling and getting the slide open can actually pull the bullet and leave gunpowder in your gun.
I HATE this profile. The FMJ bullets I use are tapered in such a way that loaded to the right specs they plunk freely, almost like a rock falling down a gutter pipe. I use SWCs too and if I load them so that the bit of shank that's showing is about as thick as a fingernail, they work fine, too.
If I load the small balls this short, they feed and work reliably in all of my 9mm semis. I'm going to ASK next time I buy RN coated lead bullets if they have a tapered profile or are 'small ball'.
I just went through the same thing with another bullet that was not defined as 'small ball' but apparently has a similar profile. You have to load them SHORT. 1.06" works in my tightest chambered, shortest leaded barrel. You may have to adjust the load down for pressure. My bullets catch on the rifling of the barrel and either won't chamber fully or if they do they get stuck in the rifling and getting the slide open can actually pull the bullet and leave gunpowder in your gun.
I HATE this profile. The FMJ bullets I use are tapered in such a way that loaded to the right specs they plunk freely, almost like a rock falling down a gutter pipe. I use SWCs too and if I load them so that the bit of shank that's showing is about as thick as a fingernail, they work fine, too.
If I load the small balls this short, they feed and work reliably in all of my 9mm semis. I'm going to ASK next time I buy RN coated lead bullets if they have a tapered profile or are 'small ball'.
Collo Rosso
Member
These messed me up too, but I don't hate them. I run them at 1.07" - 1.075" and they feed fine in my S.A. range officer and new CZ SP-01, both with short throat. They work fine in my Glock 26 also, but then I think they would feed in a Glock if I put the cartridges backwards in the magazine.
