So you want to load Speer Shotshells??

Rule3 · #1 04-29-2011, 02:49 PM

I thought I did, just because and the factory ones are expensive. Well I finally got a box of empties (out of stock for ever). I broke open some old field loads with #8 and or #9 shot. Filled the little capsules with shot, snapped on the top and loaded with 5.0 grs HP 38.

The Speer manual says to go easy on the crimp as you will crack them so I did.

Loaded 2 in a snubby 442. The pics below show the pattern. One was on the ground and one stapled to the side of my target . Both at 10-12 feet.

First shot made the second round walk forward and jam the cylinder, I could push it back with my finger. I just now tried to crimp a little more and cracked two of them so there is no way to get it out of the brass or even deprime the brass. I crushed them with pliers for later disposal.

Bottom line:

Looks like they will kill a small snake or rodent. Are they worth loading yourself, I do not think so. Buy a box of loaded ones unless you have a lot of snakes or rodents to deal with.

The pics show both sides of the paper plate for entry and exit "wounds"

acl864 · #2 04-29-2011, 09:04 PM

I had a little better luck with them. I was able to get enough crimp to hold them in place without cracking the case. I did crack a couple trying to push the little plastic plug into the plastic sleeve after I over filled them with shot. I had similar results to what you have pictured using the suggested load of Unique. I keep a speed strip of them handy but so far haven't had the occasion to dispatch any pests with them. Considering I got the whole box of plastic cases for less than one 10-pack of factory shotshell loads cost I'm OK with the results... but they are a pain to reload.

PDL · #3 04-29-2011, 10:15 PM

Were you using a standard roll crimp die or a Lee Factory Crimp Die?
If I remember, my RCBS .38 roll crimp can do a taper crimp.
So what type of crimp were you trying for?

couleeflyfisher · #4 04-29-2011, 11:25 PM

I've loaded several 50 round batches of them and shot lots of them with never a malfunction, used either RCBS or Lyman .38/.357 dies. Have popped several snakes and a few rats at the dump. Common sense crimping and suggested bullseye loads. Effective range probably 10'-15'. Have also used quite a few shotshells with gas checks but Speer capsules more convenient.

Rule3 · #5 04-29-2011, 11:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PDL

Were you using a standard roll crimp die or a Lee Factory Crimp Die?
If I remember, my RCBS .38 roll crimp can do a taper crimp.
So what type of crimp were you trying for?

Lee FC die which roll crimps. I would think a taper crimp would work better with these but I do not have one.

Snapping Twig · #6 04-29-2011, 11:37 PM

Way cool!

FWIW, grab a box of gas checks and assemble them by adding powder to the case, insert a gas check cup facing up, shot, then a gas check facing cup up and crimp.

Old school I know, but you won't be dependent on stuff being in stock that way.

cjw3 · #7 04-30-2011, 12:43 AM

When I lived in southwest GA and later on near the coast, I had several chances to use them on poisonous snakes and they are effective out to about 10 feet. The old yellow ones would crack if a roll crimp was applied, so I got in the habit of using a taper crimp on them and it seems to hold them in place fine. The blue ones they use nowadays may be more resistant to cracking, but I still stick with the taper crimp.

The .38's hold around 110 #9's; .44's hold 200 of the same size. I have been wanting to try some with #12 but have not gotten around to it. Penetration with that small size shot would be very, very limited however.

I recently made up a batch of the .38 size with 3 #1 buckshot. I found that I needed to use some buffer material at the front to cushion the buckshot to prevent cracking the end of the capsule from recoil. They ran about 815 fps from a 2" Chief Special and would pattern pretty closely out to about 30 feet or so.

The shot capsules have their uses, but they can be tedious to work with.

ArchAngelCD · #8 04-30-2011, 01:28 AM

I've loaded quite a few of those and have cracked a few while sorting out how much crimp to use. I also used 5.0gr W231 and they work very well with #9 shot...

Jellybean · #9 04-30-2011, 04:34 AM

I've loaded tons of those things in various calibers and with just about anything that would fit inside. Use a very light taper crimp and you should be fine.

My biggest problem with them is that in order to get reliable penetration you have to use bigger shot sizes, which means less shot and poorer patterns. I hardly ever even mess with them anymore.

dickttx · #10 04-30-2011, 09:16 AM

I have used these for several years on copperheads that like our flower beds and concrete porch. I have never had to use more than one shot.
I had some of the capsules that I had loaded and used several years ago, but now they will not load into the chambers of my Trooper MkIII. Too long. So I bought a box of loaded ones when we built our house in 1999. The price on the box is $2.99. When I needed some more last year they were $13.99. I believe that is the largest increase of any gun related item I have ever purchased.

Rule3 · #11 04-30-2011, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jellybean

I've loaded tons of those things in various calibers and with just about anything that would fit inside. Use a very light taper crimp and you should be fine.

My biggest problem with them is that in order to get reliable penetration you have to use bigger shot sizes, which means less shot and poorer patterns. I hardly ever even mess with them anymore.

I only have Lee dies and the revolver dies roll crimp and the semis will taper crimp either with the FC die or by using the seating die set deeper. Sure do not want to buy a new die just for these things. Wonder if a 9mm will crimp them????

Jellybean · #12 04-30-2011, 11:38 AM

I don't use the Lee FC die, ever. I have loaded the shot capsules with the regular Lee seat/crimp dies, don't they crimp anymore? I would adjust them to where they would just start to roll into the plastic.

Rule3 · #13 04-30-2011, 12:08 PM

Yes, they crimp if you adjust the seating dies down further, It will seat and crimp in one step. You have to allow for about a
.055-.06 further bullet seat as the crimp action pushes it down that much. Basically set your bullet seating depth .06 higher than you want if using the seating die to crimp.

Larry from Bend · #14 05-01-2011, 10:18 AM

I've loaded these since the 70s in .38 and .44. Only problem I've had is not crimping them enough when I first started out. I just loaded 25 .44 Special last week (Rattlers will start showing up by the 10th of May) with #7 1/2 shot. They pattern fine with 7.5 grains of Power Pistol @ 8-10 feet. They are actually way more than needed for our Prairie Rattlers but I carry a .44 Special around here so that's what I use.

I've always used RCBS dies and believe they are taper crimp.

As far as penetration goes, I once killed 24 Rattlers in a single day with a Model 34 (22 rimfire) loaded with 25 grain, WW #12 shot --- it worked fine. I'd try some #12 in my .44 loads if I could find a small amount.

Don't give up on those reloads. Remember not to push the capsules too fast as patterns blow out even more. --- it's good of Speer to supply the capsules as I'd go broke buying .44 shotshells @ $15 for 10.

Alk8944 · #15 05-01-2011, 02:07 PM

"I just now tried to crimp a little more and cracked two of them so there is no way to get it out of the brass or even deprime the brass. I crushed them with pliers for later disposal."

It seems pretty elementary to me, but obviously isn't! Why didn't you just wait until you go shooting the next time and shoot them instead of destroying a cartridge case?????

Rule3 · #16 05-01-2011, 04:48 PM

I guess I was a little miffed and did not think of that. Oh well two 38 spl cases is not the end. I have a few more.

5906fan · #17 05-01-2011, 05:38 PM

intersting post and info I may pursue later on as I just recently came into possesion of a .357 mag GP100.
I have loaded shotshells for .45acp for years useing the RCBS die set (really pricey now) but that's for a new thread I'll post later.

H Richard · #18 05-02-2011, 11:54 AM

I've loaded both 38 and 44 Special shotshells using the Speer shot capsules. I use Unique in both, (a healthy load), and #12 shot. I was able to find the #12 shot (maybe 4 years ago) by just putting "number 12 shot" in my Google search engine and located a supplier. It was available in 10 lb bags, (thank goodness) as it was expensive then, hate to think what it is now. #12 throws a much denser pattern, and good out to 10-12 ft. Using a taper crimp die on the 38's worked better for me, don't ave one for the 44 so just backed the crimp off a tiny bit from the cast bullet load.

Larry from Bend · #19 05-03-2011, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by H Richard

I've loaded both 38 and 44 Special shotshells using the Speer shot capsules. I use Unique in both, (a healthy load), and #12 shot. I was able to find the #12 shot (maybe 4 years ago) by just putting "number 12 shot" in my Google search engine and located a supplier. It was available in 10 lb bags, (thank goodness) as it was expensive then, hate to think what it is now. #12 throws a much denser pattern, and good out to 10-12 ft. Using a taper crimp die on the 38's worked better for me, don't ave one for the 44 so just backed the crimp off a tiny bit from the cast bullet load.

Midway has the #12 shot (backordered) --- $35 for 10 pounds. I imagine it would be $50 by the time shipping was added. Cheaper Than Dirt has #12 shot in 12 gauge shells for $6 a box. Shipping adds another $16. I think I'll keep looking for a box of shells with #12 shot @ our local gun shops. CCI prefers #9 shot in .38 and .44 shot shells --- and they are probably right that it's the best overall shot size. Again, for my uses, even #7 1/2 works fine. Even one #7 1/2 to the head of one of our Rattlers means "Lights out" and the patterns I get assure multiple hits.

rburg · #20 05-03-2011, 12:08 PM

Funny. I bought a box of them back in the mid 1980s and loaded them up. I can't remember what shot I used, but I think it was probably #9.

For whatever reason I hadn't taken them out for testing for a while. One day we had a club work day on club owned property. We'd had an ongoing problem with gackels/blackbirds/starlings. They liked to nest in the rafters of a building and made a terrible mess on the picknic tables underneath.

So along came the shotshells, and a M60. I know, not the idea combination.

One of our members had a pretty severe heart attack the prior Thanksgiving and he wasn't allowed to work. His wife threatened us if she found out he did anything, or even was out in the sun very long. So I did the decent thing, I issued him the M60, the box of shells, and told him we were calling an ambulance if we heard silence for any period of time. We went out back and started our fencing project. And on a fairly regular schedule, we'd hear a "bang." All was well.

But after a few hours we needed a break, so we drove up to the building. Our buddy was there, and pretty disgusted by my reloading skills. He'd shot factory shot loads before, and knew you had to get close. But he fired 40 some odd shots and failed to get a kill. Remember, starlings aren't hard to kill, and many die at the hands of kids with BB guns each year. For his last shot he got up real close, it landed on a branch above his head. When he shot, it fell to the ground, flopping around. So he stepped on it before it could recover.

My conclusion was my handloads were lousy. I've very successfully used both 9mm and 44 loads on critters up to the size of raccoons. I have a neighbor who has had them in his belfrey (OK, his attic). His solution was to end the invasion with his 38 caliber carry gun. He was pretty happy about killing one, but now he has another. So a few weeks back I bought him a 10 pack at a tiny gunshow down river. I'm waiting the outcome. He's still trying to plug the vulnerability where they enter (I also gave him some grill cloth to screw into place. )

Rule3 · #21 05-03-2011, 01:31 PM

Beyond 10 ft I do not think they would be effective at killing much of anything. Also, in the Speer manual if they are loaded to hot the pattern will spread to fast and will not work well.

Apparently what I did on my test rounds was I had crimped them some but then when I came home and in haste I turned the crimp down to far like there was no crimp at all and that's how I cracked them. Next time I am loading 38 specials I will try some more. I only tried 38's as I figured it would be a good pocket carry. We have pygmy rattlers (there are some full sized Diamond backs but not common), Water Moccasins and Coral snakes. For actually trying to kill something a 44 or 45 shot shell would be a lot better.

Last summer up in Georgia I saw the biggest Rattlesnake I have ever seen, I would only attempt to kill that one with a 12 gauge!

valcron · #22 07-04-2014, 10:46 PM

I load these for my model 60 and 696. Use super glue to hold the base plug and also to seal the capsule in the case with light roll crimp. Let the glue "wick in". Just a drop is enough. I use #12 shot (available in 10 pound sacks at Ballistic Products) and the Speer recommended load for Bullseye: 4.5 gr for 38 Spec (COL. 1.5") and 5.8 gr for 44 Spec (COL 1.6"). Short barrels work best so I do not use them in my 6" 686 or 6" 629. Patterns are great and the load is deadly on copperheads and rattlers at 5 to 10 feet. Resist the temptation to load hot! Yes the loading is tedious, but loading the capsules themselves is a separate operation that can be done away from the actual reloading area. Have fun.

arjay · #23 07-04-2014, 11:00 PM

I've been loading these in 38 and 44 using a card over the powder and one over the shot with a roll crimp and a bit of caulking.Very easy to make and cheap ��

JohnK · #24 07-05-2014, 09:15 AM

Smaller shot, than #9, REALLY increases the pattern.

I load #11, and inside of ten feet, penetration in just fine. The snakes are DRT, without even a quiver.

Yes, the small shot is EXPENSIVE. I bought about ten pounds years ago, should last me a lifetime.

ArchAngelCD · #25 07-07-2014, 12:50 AM

LOL another 3+ year old thread brought back from the Abyss...

I won't buy shot in big bags for a lot of money just to load tiny shotshells. I took apart a box of 12ga shells loaded with #9 shot and I'm guessing that will last me a very long time. (28 oz. or so)

arjay · #26 07-07-2014, 12:56 AM

Ive got 1/2 a bag of #9s left from the days when shot was $22/25 lbs

Jellybean · #27 07-07-2014, 08:12 AM

The first time I read about Speer shot loads in the magazines, the author(s) claimed they were great for police officers to carry on duty because you could load a couple in your revolver so you didn't have to aim, then after you wounded the offender you could take your time and take aim with a bullet. I knew several officers that followed this advise, but I wanted to try them out first, so I tested them....

Anyway, they do have some usefulness, if you load your own, and there is a lot of things you can do with them too. If you intend on loading them as shotshells, pattern them on a piece of paper and look to see if there are any areas that are as large as what you intend to shoot that doesn't have any holes in them. If there is, try a smaller shot, but remember that the smaller the shot, the less penetration you get.

I found I could get more shot in the brass without the cup than the cup would hold, so I don't usually use them. They can also be used as a type of 'sabot' with smaller diameter bullets, but their success varies widely.

texan4ut · #28 07-08-2014, 04:02 PM

I load mine own and did crack a couple of shells till I got the crimp right. Lee FC die. Finding shot shells in 38 was impossible and I was lucky to find the shot shell cases on line. Bought a box of 12 ga #9's and I just cut the top and use the shot. Use Win 231 powder and they throw a good pattern.