For NON +P loads, usually with 158 LSWC, 158 Berry's, or 148 HBWC.

What are your results with these two powders for .38?

Thanks.

ideally ... neither.
TG has case fill issues which opens you up to double and triple charges.
700X isn't as bad as 800X but still meters like corn flakes.

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it just needs more voltage

I've had good luck with Titegroup, both under 148 HBWCs and 125gr LRNs. The charge weights were uncomfortably low for me with HBWCs-I prefer Bullseye or W231 in that application. It gave great results with both bullets for me, however.

I've yet to try it under any sort of 158gr bullet.

I can't comment on 700X, as I have no experience with it in any application.

The biggest problem I have had with TG is that it burns very hot, and thus plates out lead in the bore unless I am using coated or jacketed bullets.

I have used 700X with 148 grain lead wadcutters and it worked fine. I little harder to measure, but I couldn't get Unique or Bullseye and the 700X was available.

Hope this helps.

Steve

I use 2.8gr of 700-X under 148gr cast BBWC and/or 158gr SWC.
performs quite well in my three 642's. Metering works just OK in my Hornady power measurer.

About 3000 rounds so far.

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Armed and Dangerous

Titegroup, Bullseye and I'm not sure what other powders barely fill the bottom of the case. Some people are dead set against using them because of the possibility of a double charge, which with a fast powder is pretty much guaranteed to destroy your gun if not more, like hands, arms, eyes, etc. However, a LOT of people do use them because they are excellent powders for their purpose and also economical because the loads are only a few grains.

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"He was kinda funny lookin'"

used to use 700x back in the bullseye days. use titegroup now and like it very much. Charles petty likes it a lot and has said so in handloader magazine on several occasions. any fast burning powder will take up very little room in a 38 spl. case. you simply have to pay attention to your loading precedures.

I hate the way 700x meters but it's all I can find this year. I have found that it works fine in 9mm, .38 special and .45, you just have to keep an eye out for light charges.

I bought a can of tite group. Doesn't meter very well thru my RCBS measure. It shot OK but I'll go back to Bullseye.

I've used both powders some with 158 gr cast bullets. Titegroup gives
good velocity for charge weight, around 800 fps out of a 4" barrel with
3.5 grs. Double charging is an operator problem not a powder problem
and is possible with any fast burning powder. 700X doesn't meter as
well as some other powders but has given some of the best accuracy
I have seen in my guns with 158 gr bullets and light loads @ 3.3 grs.

TG has worked very well for me for years in 125-130-147-158 cast lead loads in my 38.

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Dum vivimus Vivamas

In the last 6 or 7 years I've loaded right around 20 pounds of Titegroup powder. Most all were mid or light loads so that's a lot of rounds down range. Never had any problems. Not one bad round. I load all the revolver calibers from .32 S&W long to .45 Colt and it works well in all of them.

I've been using 158 grain RNL bullets over 3.2 grains of TITEGROUP for many years now. Accurate, mild and consistent load for my .38 Revolvers. Also quite economical. A one pound can will load 2,188 rounds so at $22 bucks a pound, each rounds powder charge cost you a penny!!!

I use TG and have had great success with it. It is accurate and economical. Can you double charge - sure if you are not paying attention. You can also do that with many other powders. I use W231 as well, same thing applies.

Be careful but don't be afraid.

I'll try out some loads... thanks!

Its not the best choice, but these days, if that's what you got , then use it. I've been using red dot in .38 spl just because....

I have used Titegroup as well, with decent results. The only thing that I did not like about it is that the powder flakes are so small, a small amount leaks out from my Lee powder disk. Bob

Great Skip's Ghost! I used to argue with him about this, too.

Tacotime, when I started reloading, a well-meaning but undereducated salesman sold me a 4 pound jug of Titegroup and told me it could be used in any handgun - and it can. So I used it in 45 ACP, 9mm, 38 Special and 357 Magnum. It went "bang" and hit the paper where I intended. Mission accomplished.

Now for the warning: It doesn't take a lot of powder to get the desired results and, if you don't PAY ATTENTION, it is really easy to double charge this powder and not notice that you have done so as it won't be overflowing the case. But if you PAY ATTENTION, all goes well.

My advice? If you have a jug of TG, use it.

And like any other aspect of reloading:

PAY ATTENTION!

I use TiteGroup with light loads for .357 Magnums. My load is 3.6 grains with a 158 grain lead round nose flat point. Shoots really well. I have no issues with leading. then again I clean my guns every time I shoot them.

Shot 1# of titegroup. It was ok for jacketed, had leading with soft swaged HBWC in my .38. It burns very hot and melts bullets, accuracy was only average. I like bullseye better, but these days you have to take what you can get.

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Common sense isn't so common.

Looks like my testing in a 2in. J Frame and a swaged 158 showed TG accuracy with several loads was mediocre but one 700X load grouped very much like Bullseye, which along with a 231 load is still the best result so far.

TG also flopped with a Berry's 158 and 148 HBWC. Maybe it would do better with a longer barrel or other bullet.

Use what you have. Don't drink, sleep, watch TV, talk to anyone or smoke while reloading. Listen to a ball game.

As was noted. Pay attention.

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That's just somebody talkin.

I experienced severe leading in a half dozen .38 Special revolvers using Titegroup which showed no or very little leading using the same cast bullets and Bullseye, Unique and W231.
Stopped using Titegroup with anything except jacketed bullets.

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Virtue,Liberty & Independence

If you have some Titegroup, you can usually trade it with shooters that compete using major power factor. They will usually give you more than an equal trade, at least that's what I found. I didn't like the feel of TG in 9mm (too "snappy") so I traded 8# of Titegroup (minus a hundred grains or so, I told the other guy this) for 10# of CFE Pistol(which he didn't like). He was happy as .....(fill in the blank).

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Minimize the variables

If you know what your doing, this is a non issue.

Man has to know his limitations.

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John

I loaded a bunch of .38 Special with 3.7grains of 700X under 125 grain JHP bullets. 700X metered without issue in my Dillon 650.

Per my books and the website load data, I load 5.0gr of Titegroup with 158gr Berry's plated FN's with very good, even great, results. It's a nice load, it all burns (little flash), recoil is moderate. It does not appear to be case sensitive. I use CCI550 (mag) primers.

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But then, what do I know?

I've only been loading a few years. I have loaded several thousand .38s in that time. I have used TG, Universal, Power Pistol, PB, and CFE pistol in .38 spcl. All of them use only a small portion of the case. When I finish a session and need to empty my powder measure, I can put 3 to 4 throws or more in an empty case without running over the top with any of these powders.

Consider a powder check die, particularly if you are using a progressive or turret press.

While I've never used TG in a 2" anything, the 4 & 5 & 6 inch revos I have used in moderate loads have all worked quite well with no leading at all using 100% cast boolits over a decade with multiple recipes.

Haven't seen it on the shelf for about 3 years now but would buy more in a heartbeat.

Re: CFE is a 'new' powder to me, only loaded 1# recently. It worked wll in 38/9 so I'll be looking for more of it too. Seems to meter very well from a Dillon.

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Dum vivimus Vivamas

I'm with the Unique/Bullseye guys. If you want to useTG Berry's or another plated bullet is the best way to go in my experience.

Here's a good target load I've been using in my Clark PPC revolver. Starting to like plated bullets for indoor shooting, less smoke!

Bullet: Bullet Works Copper Plated 148grn. DEWC w/ Cannelure
Powder: Hodgdon Titegroup 3.3 grs.
Primer: Federal 100 Small Pistol Match
Case: Federal .38 Special
LOAL: 1.220 (Taper Crimped)

A 5-shot groups at 25 yards off-hand.

I have had similar results with similar quantity of powder used.
I also use TG in 45 acp all with good results.
If you are that worried about overcharges you need to really examine your reloading procedures.

I love me some titegroup. It flows in my garden variety RSBC powder measure the same each time once its set. It's not to costly and I can use it for several revolver loads. I prefer it in 44 S.

As for dropping multi-loads in a case, just don't do it.

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>>ARMED LIBERAL>>

re: "700X metered without issue in my Dillon 650."

Great SCOTT!!!! In my 650 I can barely approximate 700x within a grain of intended charge and it takes constant fiddling....

Re: 'double/triple charges' for TiteGroup....Enter Now the fabled and maligned progressive press....so far not an issue.

From the 'odd how things work' file: I've been hoarding the last bit of my old 8# jug of TG used for years in various range games. Turned out I had nearly 1000 rounds worth in there....and when finally empty, on my next visit to the LGS he actually had a SINGLE #......I haven't seen it on any shelf within 50 miles of here, in the last 4-5 years.

I'm a fan of TiteGroup for a host of reasons.

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Dum vivimus Vivamas

I've been using 700-X for the past 45 years of reloading. It's a great powder for target loads and service-level loads in .38 Spl, .44 Special, .45 Auto and .45 Colt. I've found it consistently accurate, mild of recoil, and economical. I've also used it for 12 gauge target loads, back when reloading 12 gauge was actually economical. Never had a problem with inconsistent charges.

What's not to like?

Reloading 101: If you are using a powder measure - any brand - you need to FILL the hopper (not partway) and allow the powder to settle to get consistent thrown charges. This is true with ANY propellant. This may require 5-10 throws of the measure before it settles in. No powder will be consistent simply dumping it into the measure. The measure must also be solidly mounted, and your operating technique CONSISTENT.

Reloading 102: If you are using a powder measure with a progressive press, after the above procedures, you need to additionally run 5-10 rounds SIMULTANEOUSLY through the complete cycle - resizing, belling, charging, seating and crimping - to allow the powder to settle in the hopper, and be thrown under the same force conditions as you will be using in your volume loading. This is done AFTER you have adjusted the measure to throw the exact charge you want. This will require WEIGHING those 5-10 charges after you throw them.

Apparently, there are many ignorant (not a sin) and/or lazy (inexcusable) reloaders. Using the above well-known and proven reloading methods, you will not have a problem with consistency with 700-X. Have used it with great results in the Dillon 550, with extreme variations of 0.1 grain or less.

I've also used Titegroup in many similar applications, in addition to target and service loads in 9mm Luger. It's a great powder as well. Very economical, very accurate and consistent. I use the Dillon 550 and on every handle stroke, see the powder bar moving. I've never had a squib or double charge that way.

If you are hand-charging a loading block full of cases, it's true a bulkier powder will make it easier to tell if you mistakenly have double-charged a case, during your pre-seating inspection of the cases. I stopped using that technique my first year of reloading - it is too easy to make a mistake. If you are not using a progressive press, you are far better off and safer charging each case individually and THEN placing it in the loading block. This way, only charged cases go into the block, and YOU put it there AFTER charging it.

BTW... storing powder in the hopper is a bad idea. Some, like Titegroup, will etch the plastic container. Always empty it back into the original container after finishing reloading your batch.

Also... on the issue of leading & Titegroup. ANY fast burning propellant, at near-max levels, will cause leading, especially in rougher barrels. There are so many factors involved including bore/cylinder throat/forcing cone diameters, bullet hardness and diameter, and pressure level, that making a blanket statement about Titegroup - or any other propellant for that matter - is meaningless. I have had leading - and no leading - with all kinds of propellants. The loads I have used regularly with Titegroup have no leading, otherwise I would not be using it.

Be safe. Reloading is a great hobby, but requires time and careful attention.

If I were starting out loading 38 Special cast bullets for target shooting now, I would use Tightgroup. As it is, I've enough Bullseye to last quite a while. Still, TG provides equally as good performance in my revolvers as Bullseye and I've not noted any leading.

Tightgroup also gives extremely small extreme spreads and good accuracy in my 45 Colt when using 240 grain cast bullets and again, absolutely no leading. Its extreme spreads are a third of what I can achieve with 231 and Unique and case orientation does not affect velocities like it does with Unique and 231.

I've not noted hot burning either after several pounds of TG, but I only use it in target loads using cast bullets. This is probably what the powder was formulated for.

All the above were tested using a chronograph over several range sessions.

Someday I'll try it in the 45 ACP in both revolvers and 1911s, but as it is, I'm not about to run out of Bullseye, Unique or 231 so I'll just keep using those powders for now.

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Keep your powder dry.

Both will work fine. You need to check the powder on each load. The truth is no powder is going to fill much on a 38 Special and double charge will pretty much fit with most powders but is easy to spot if you are looking.

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Send lawyers, guns & money...

I loaded and shot both . My preference is 700X . I have " ZERO " metering problems . Regards Paul

I was given several pounds of 700X so I've been using it in .38s with wadcutters and 158 gr SWCs, as well as .45 ACP. Works fine through my old Lyman 55. No, it doesn't meter as smoothly as some but my charge weights are consistent, which is ultimately what matters, IMO.

About the only pistol cartridges I don't recall at least trying a load with 700-X would be for 10mm & 357 SIG .. Probably because Hodgdons doesn't list any data and the older IMR listings don't show the 357 SIG caliber at all!

Sometimes there are nice, medium velocity 700-X loads that seem to coincide almost exactly with the LEE Powder scoops, which makes it pretty easy to load up and check weigh 50 cases in a very reasonable time. Not too much exposure to a potential double (or TRIPLE?!?) load of powder.

I'm sure something could be projected (GASP! SAFELY, of course!) as there is 40 S&W & 9mm data available...

Bingo. I mostly load 148g DEWCs and 145g LRN for my 38 special revolvers and I use Tightgroup or Win 231 for them both.

The powder drop on my Dillon 550 does a great job with TG (and W231). I run intermittent tests to keep it honest, but after over 1000 loads, it's never caused me any issues.