44 mag Henry .432 vs .431 with AA No. 9 load vs SR-4756 Question??

10mm_Shooter

10mm_Shooter

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Hi All,

I have been chasing a small leading issue with my Henry .44 BB with 20 inch barrel. Initially I was running a 240 LRN-FP at .430 and was getting a good bit of leading in the first 1-2 inches in front of the chamber, rest of the bore was perfectly clean. Also I was running a Green Dot load at only 1075 fps across the chrony.

So I was a little small in diameter and a bit lite on horsepower

So I have gone to .431 sized and cranked up the power, with the same 240 LRN bullet at .431 (13 BHN alloy)
I ran 16.2 grs of AA No.9 for 1442 fps across the chrony
I ran 9.4 grs of SR-4756 for 1190 fps across the chrony
well these loads almost completely eliminated the leading, its to the point now that it really takes a very close inspection to notice the just a hint of leading in that 1-2 in area forward of the chamber.

So I've got a good mold and have sized some 240g LRN-FP at .432 I would like to get the AA No 9 load down to 14-15 grains, I'm guessing that should get me to 1200-1300 ish fps ?? Should I have any concerns running a .432 sized bullet in my .44 Henry any risk of pressure spikes, that is why I was sticking with a slow powder(trying to avoid any spikes that might occur with a faster powder)

I'm looking for about 1200 fps for a good velocity with .432 bullets and No.9 is my preferred powder, this should have enough punch to seal the bore and finally put to rest any leading issues.

thanks for the input:D
 
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Lead bullets generally work best when sized .001 to .002 larger than the bore. Did you slug the bore?

As long as you work up the load and it will chamber in the rifle it should be no problem.

Trail Boss has worked well for me in the 44 Magnum rifle. The max load with a 200 gr RNFP cast goes 1100 fps from a 20 inch with no leading. Very accurate, fun load.
 
Classic example of too small.
Your revision points to this.
You might want to take a look at hi tek coating, or if your mechanically inclined, powder coating.
Coating bullets performs many miracles.
With the full plastic jacket, leading, smoke, and all of the drama disappears.
 
As long as the rounds loaded with the .432 bullets chamber , you'll be ok, and let the rifle tell you whichsize it prefers.

I like AA#9 , but 1200fps from a rifle would be pushing the lower end of its pressure window. But I understand that in the lingering powder crunch one has to work with what have/ available , instead of having a shelf full of specialized powders.

So start working you way downwards , to discover the point where eith accuraccy falls off , extreme spreads increase notably , or other signs of inconsistant ignition.

I'm wild guessing that you will have satisfactor results at closer to 1300 fps than 1200, but let the rifle ( and target and chrono) tell you.
 
I have to agree with Bigfoot, trying to throttle #9 down to 1200 fps will likely create more issues than it solves. A couple of suggestions based on my experience with an 1892 Winchester in 357 Magnum.

One, try a faster powder. I've used 8.4 grains of Accurate #5 to obtain 1400 fps with a 158 grain Berry's Hard Cast and there was no detectable leading at all. Unfortunately the accuracy wasn't what I was hoping for so I recently tested a load with 10.3 grains of Accurate #7 that looks very promising. If you want the throttle down to 1200 fps you may have to look around for some Accurate #2 or Trail Boss, because using a slower buring powder will only create issues with ignition stability.

Second suggestion would be to try casting your bullets with a harder alloy. Those Berry's Hard Cast I mentioned have proven to be very tolerant of higher velocities from my rifles without any severe leading. However that Accurate #7 load did leave something in the barrel of my Rossi M92 I was using as a test rifle because I felt a very slight increase in drag for the last inch or so when I first patched the barrel. It didn't effect accuracy and cleaned up quickly so I'll do a bit more testing before I give up on the #7 load.
 
FWIW, SAAMI specs. for a .44 Magnum rifle barrel is .431" groove diameter, rather than the .429" suggestion for handguns. Don't know why. I slugged my .44 mag. Puma and got .431"-.432" and almost sent it back until I learned it was only .001" over "standard". I now routinely load .433" bullets and have no leading problems and it's fairly accurate...
 
Thanks for the input guys, I have assembled 10 mock up cartridges @1.580 and they cycled and ejected perfectly, at .432 with a nice firm crimp,

I also did the plunk test and they go plunk into the chamber on their own :)

I'll be loading up several different charge weights and powders today and report back my findings. I wont be able to go chrony them at the range until next weekend.
 
If it hasn't been mentioned; it is advisable to use MAGNUM primers with reduced loads of AA9.
 
I also have a Henry Big Boy .44 and I size mine to .431, lube with Bens Red and get no leading. I shoot the Noe 432-265wfngc (272 gr) over 19.5 gr H110 and it will shoot them inside of 2" at 50 yards with a Skinner peep sight. For jacketed loads I was using the 240xtp over 24.5 gr H110 and the groups were the same. I dropped a nice 10 pointer last year at 40 yards with that load. I haven't tried any 240 gr lead loads yet in mine as I'm real happy with the Noe boolits.
 
I use SR4756 in all my revolver target loads and lament its discontinuance. I asked Hodgdon's for a recommendation for a powder that is available and comes close to SR4756's characteristics and they suggested Trailboss. I've never tried it and know little about it so take that for what it might be worth.

Thanks to a tip from another poster to these forums, I did luck into a shop about 120 miles away with a lot of SR4756 on their shelves. I now have a total of seven pounds on hand, which should last me a long, long time. That shop still had some left so if anyone lives close enough to the Easton, Pennsylvania area to make the drive worthwhile, PM me for the shop's contact info.

Ed
 
venomballistics said:
nah ... powder coating does the same thing for a fraction the cost.
a pound can be had at harbor freight for $5 and will coat several thousand bullets.
Click to expand...

I don't think of powder coating and gas checks serving the same purpose. How would coating prevent gas and barrel friction from melting lead and letting gas and pressure leak past the bullet?
 
at_liberty said:
I don't think of powder coating and gas checks serving the same purpose. How would coating prevent gas and barrel friction from melting lead and letting gas and pressure leak past the bullet?
Click to expand...

same way a shotgun wad performs this exact same function.
Powder coat is often confused with simple paint. It is often used in that capacity but it's not paint.
I've made guitar picks out of the stuff. it's more a structural material than paint, and a lot tougher than you might think.
I often call it the full plastic jacket.

Powder coated is largely impervious to the cast bullet trinity of alloy, size and lube in terms of fouling issues.
It just don't care until your up around 2500 FPS before it becomes alloy and coating grade sensitive.
Specific sizing is still a factor in terms of accuracy, but figuring out the perfect size will not cost you a long night with a bore brush, removing lead.

I'm not entirely certain how it does all these things, or how it does them with such brilliance.
I can tell you that it does deliver the goods.
 
venomballistics said:
same way a shotgun wad performs this exact same function.
Powder coat is often confused with simple paint. It is often used in that capacity but it's not paint.
I've made guitar picks out of the stuff. it's more a structural material than paint, and a lot tougher than you might think.
I often call it the full plastic jacket.

Powder coated is largely impervious to the cast bullet trinity of alloy, size and lube in terms of fouling issues.
It just don't care until your up around 2500 FPS before it becomes alloy and coating grade sensitive.
Specific sizing is still a factor in terms of accuracy, but figuring out the perfect size will not cost you a long night with a bore brush, removing lead.

I'm not entirely certain how it does all these things, or how it does them with such brilliance.
I can tell you that it does deliver the goods.
Click to expand...

Now we have the problem of one coating versus another. My Missouri bullets are coated but not powder coated. I don't believe the diameter is significantly affected. The grain of the bullet is still evident, but now the bullets are bronze in color.
 
at_liberty said:
Now we have the problem of one coating versus another. My Missouri bullets are coated but not powder coated. I don't believe the diameter is significantly affected. The grain of the bullet is still evident, but now the bullets are bronze in color.
Click to expand...

That's not really a problem.
about the only performance difference between any of them seems to be failure velocities.
One might give up before another, but they do the same thing up to that point.
That point is up above anything you'll get out of any pistol cartridge.
 
thanks, I have Hi-Tek coating on hand but that's a different project. Going traditional for the lever action, going to the range next weekend and will report back
 
Range report for Sat Dec 13th.

We have success, with the new mold and sized to .432 my Henry was flawless today, I ran 100 rounds through it today and the barrel is absolutely pristine no leading, no leading

Running the .432 sized bullets was definitely the trick for it.

I chronographed two new loads today both with same 240 gr .432 sized LRN, 15.0 grs of AA#9 runs 1330 fps, 34.15 SD and 153 ES(ouch) @ 40 degrees ambient, 950 ft/lbs of energy, brass ejects and still drops in a .44 case gauge, primers show no flattening at all. Charge is so lite that brass has signs of blow by from the brass not fully sealing the chamber,(yes I know AA9 like to a full charge hence the high ES). Next trip I'll go up to 15.8 grains of AA#9....should bring me in at 1400fps then

Next was 11 grs of SR-4756, 1320 fps, 16 SD, 69 ES @ 40 degrees ambient, primers show no flattening at all, brass ejects and still drops in a .44 case gauge. This load is definitely a keeper.

I'll be checking for accuracy on the next range trip, all I had time for today was to run them across the chronograph.
 
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