Hi
I been reloading 38 special with w231 i am useing berry 158grn round nose
at 4.6gr of w231 my freind said thay are over charg
I used to load books lyman 49th edition an 47th edition
the 49th start 3.6 max 4.0
the 47th start 3.5 max 4.9
an i look at winchester load data 3.1 to 3.7 i load 6 round at 3.5 a shot 1 rounds a i check the barre to see if the bullet came out so what do you guy think to hot to low
thanks

According to Lyman #45 you're at a max charge.Why not back it down to 4.2?

Actual Winchester data, not the current data which is listed on the
Hodgdon website, shows 4.5 grs under a 158 gr SWC as standard
pressure at 15,800 psi. At 4.6 grs you are probably close to upper end
of standard pressure, hardly likely to harm any decent gun. It's really
up to you as to what you like to shoot. 4.0 grs is a popular charge
weight and there's really no need to go any lower than that.

Looking in my Sierra book, they don't have a load listed for a lead SWC bullet, but show a max charge of 4.9 grains for a jacketed 158 grain bullet. In my 9th edition Hornady book, they show a max charge of 4.4 grains 231 for the lead bullets in 158 grain weight and 4.9 grains of 231 for the 158 grain XTP.

So I would say you are at the upper end of standard loads and probably getting close to the upper end of +P loads for 38 Special at 4.6 grains. Seems like I read on X-Treme's website (who makes plated bullets like Berrys) to use jacketed bullet data on plated bullets and not to exceed 1200 fps unless it's a heavy plated bullet.

First, Berry's makes both Hard Cast Lead and Plated bullets and I do not have any idea which you are using. Since this can matter a LOT with some powders it would be useful if you were more specific.

Assuming you are using Berry's Plated bullets you should really be looking at data for Jacketed bullets. With a very low pressure caliber such as the 38 special using data developed for lower friction lead bullets can lead to a risk of a Squib lodged in your barrel.

As for Lyman's data, my experience with their data in the 357 Magnum is that it was probably worked up in the 50's or 60's and is a bit "hot" when compared to data that was worked up more recently. I'll also point out that today's Winchester 231 is likely NOT the same 231 as was produced 30 or more years ago. Hodgdon currently produces ALL of the Winchester powders and today's Winchester powders are simply a Hodgdon powder with a Winchester label on the container. Because of this I would recommend that you use Hodgdon's data for a bottle of modern 231. If you have an older tin can you can probably use the older Winchester data.

Finally, 231 falls into a burn rate that many would classify as Very Fast. This means that it's well suited for low recoil, low velocity, plinking loads with LEAD bullets. With a plated or jacketed bullet I would personally scout around for a powder with a somewhat slower burn rate. However Hodgdon and Hornady do list data for 231 with their XTP jacketed bullets so with the correct charge the risk of a squib is likely quite low. Because you are using a powder that is pretty fast I would recommend you use Hodgdon's data because it's a bit more conservative than Hornady's. In this case the recommended range is 3.7 to 4.3 grains for a jacketed 38 special. BTW, per Hodgdon for a 38 +P you can extend that range to 4.6 grains max. so your current load is likely to be at the maximum for a 38 special +P.

I've been using 4.2gr of W231 for years under 158gr LSWC and plated target loads.

4.8 of 231 has been my go to load for over 20 yrs. But I use a 158gr hardcast LSWC or LRN. Gives good accuracy and knocks down plates and pins very well****ns about 840 fps in my 4" L frame. I believe its very difficult to find a good Jacketed 158 load that does as well. When you try to match the lead bullet velocities the pressure and recoil increase. Lead is also less expensive.
I recently bought some Armscorp 158gr FMJRN but like the lead handloads better. Armscorp` brass is the benefit.
Good luck
Jim

My old lot of w231 out of a 6" barrel with 4.7 grs of powder
with a lead 158gr bullet gets..........

890 fps +/- at 4,500 feet of elevation out of a K frame.
I tried lighter loads but they did not group as well in the old
M19.

Apparently you don't have a chronograph. Out of a 4" model 66, with plated bullet, 4.6 is +P at about 135 power factor. I used 4.5 for PF 130 for USPSA.
However, 4.3 gives PF 120, good enough for ICORE, and well over the 105 now required for IDPA/SSR.

Your load is OK for any revolver rated for +P.

__________________
Science plus Art

Hodgdon doesn't produce any powder, they market powder. Win 231 is
and was manufactured by the St. Marks company in FL. There's lots of
variation in data for 231 in various loading manuals. Hodgdon's data
seems to be slanted toward the Cowboy Action velocity level. Standard
pressure limit for the 38 spl is 17,000 and +P limit is 20,000. Actual
Win data said 4.5 grs with 158 gr lead SWC is 15,800 psi. If you're
bored and have nothing else to worry about then worry about your
4.6 gr handloads.

First off, W231/HP-38 is not a "Very Fast" powder. It's not slow but not very fast.

My favorite 158gr LSWC bullet load is 4.0gr W231 which is also a good load for a plated bullet. I don't think 4.6gr is overpressure but it is on the hot side.

__________________
Freedom is never free!!
SWCA #3437

This is where a Chronograph comes in handy but check their website for the latest data. I've always said that Re-loading is NOT an exact science and when working up new loads I'll bring them to the Range and shoot them through a Chronograph to get a better idea of just how they are performing as compared to the loading data.

Winchester used to list 4.3 gr WW231 as a standard pressure load for 158 gr lead bullets. I used that load for many years. It will shoot to the same point of aim as the standard 38 Special 158 gr lead factory loads. It shot to the sights on my 3" and 4" M64 S&W revolvers. I was required to use a 38 Special with standard ammo in those days.

This has more to do with the gun that this load was worked up for. I can work up a warm load for my M-10 that will beat up my M-36.
You can get the same velocity with a slower powder with less pressure.

I load a hard cast SWC over 4.5g W231.

Old school 38Spl is today viewed as +P or even +p+.

Post war S&W's are rated for +P, not always, but not a problem for now and then.

I really like the 4.5g load and figure it to be @ 850fps and useful if called upon.

Very accurate too.

I shoot it in a 36ND and a 649-2.

4006,
Plated or cast lead and which make and model gun are shooting it from? makes a difference.
Gary

My last Winchester centerfire handgun data magazine had:

158 gr. jHP ... 231 ...........xx gr at 720 fps ... 17,200psi
158 gr. LSWC 231 ............xx gr at 860 fps ... 17,100psi
158 gr. LSWC WST ...........xx gr at 800 fps ... 17,300psi

I would think this was out of a 6" ventedbarrel of some type, or even
a universal test barrel of maybe 4" in length.

The 158 lead with 231 is only 30 feet short from my 6" revolver
with a chrony at ten feet. However the 17,300psi seem light for +P data to me.
Cases fall out easy and no signs of pressure, just that I thought that +P pressures
were around the 20,000psi range?
In a 686 6" L frame I did get the 38 case and 158gr lead bullet up to 954 fps with
a maximum load of w231 from a Lyman manual, but accuracy did not improve any.

When in doubt, go with the lowest listed charge. Won't hurt anything and it's much safer than just picking a random charge between the min./max. as you are reloading for your gun, not your friend's...

thank to all
I wint back an work up a new load