38 Super Pet Loads/Powder Selection

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Ben_hutcherson

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I'm going to have a new RIA 38 Super waiting for me under the Christmas tree, and have already started doing some work up and experimenting with powders.

I have Lyman 49 and the most current Speer and Hornady manuals. I'll also, at least for the time being, be using Starline 38 Super Comp. Brass and Berry's 115gr plated bullets.

I have the following powders on hand that I think are in the right burn rate range for the cartridge

Blue Dot
Herco
Unique
PB
800X
CFE Pistol

On the faster end, I have
Bullseye(only a little bit that I'm trying to conserve)
Red Dot
Clays
American Select
Titegroup
N310
W231

And, on the slower end, I have
2400
296
IMR 4227
N110


So far, I've put together some with 9.2gr Blue Dot(a little over the suggested starting load in my Hornady for a 115FMJ, but what my Autodisk would throw).

Between my books and the Hodgdon website, I can find data for most of the fast and medium powders I list above(although not for the slow powders, which doesn't surprise me). I'm not asking for load data(and if anyone wants to offer some I will double check against the published data I have) but more for any experience that folks have in this caliber with the powders I listed above. As I'm sure you all know, what I have is what I have and for the time being I don't really relish the thought of finding any other powders.

So, with all of that said, what suggestions can you all offer?
 
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Hi Ben
I noticed your inquiry on .38 super powders, and recently was reviewing some of my Handloader magazine articles. I ran across an article by Stan Trzoniec in the December 2013 issue # 287 of Handloader about the Les Baer custom .38 super.
The article gives the following powders for use in the .38 super.
115 Hornday RN Unique 6.4 or 6.9 grains OAL is 1.245 @1,189FPS and 1,303 FPS
115 Winchester ST Bullseye 5.5 and 5.8 grains OAL 1.260 @ 1,141 FPS and 1,222 FPS.
124 Remington MC Blue Dot 7.5 or 8.7 grains OAL 1.250 @ 1,012 FPS and 1,293 FPS.
124 Spear TMJ W/231 4.8 and 5.3 grains OAL 1.250 @ 1,054 FPS and 1,127 FPS.
I only listed the loads you had powders on hand.
I noticed you were using Berrys plated bullets, so be sure you stick to loading guidelines using lead data. The bullets listed above are jacketed and not lead.
I hope this helps you decide on which powders to use.
When buying more bullets try the Hornday HAP 124 grain as this was written up with good results in the article.
Ron
 
I use a normal jacketed bullet in .38 Super for full-charge loads, always in the 120-130 grain range, and HS-6 powder. It probably doesn't make the fastest .38 Super load but it is accurate in all of my Supers and consistent over the chronograph.

I usually use the Remington 124gr JHP just because it works well and I can buy it at attractive prices. If I go to a reduced load (target load) my guns shoot good enough with lead that I use cast rather than plated. I still stick with HS-6 and drop the charge back about 0.7 - 0.8 grs.

Once discovered, HS-6 has been my unfailing favorite for .38 Super and 9x19. WSF is a close second - darned close. :)

The Starline "Comp" brass is nice. I prefer it to anything else, but keep an eye on your charges if you change around. Weigh some cases and verify that your Starline brass is not significantly heavier than the brass used in published data. (Yes, all just part of "normal load development.")
 
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Of the powders you list I have experience with CFE Pistol in .38 Super and Super Comp (rimless .38 Super).
It performs well at moderate to upper pressures.
My "go to" powders in this caliber have been HS-6 and HS-7 (unfortunately discontinued).
HS-6 is a great powder for moderate to upper pressure loads in .38 Super and 9X19.
 
The only bullet I ever loaded for Super is the Sierra Tournamentmaster 130 RN FMJ over some 321. The results were better than any factory FMJ I ever tried, in fact they shot better groups than the STHP I bought for SD. (But I never carried the Commander 38) Ivan
 
Thanks everyone, especially for the personal experiences and load data posted.

I'm actually anxious to try some CFE Pistol, as it actually mentions "best for 38 Super" directly on the bottle.

For the time being, I have 50 rounds loaded with Blue Dot, and we'll see how those go. All the load data I've been looking at lists the measured velocities in either a 5" universal receiver or 5" Government model(which is effectively what I'm using) so I hope that my actual velocities will be close. Speer listed the Blue Dot load I'm using as being about 1200fps on the high end(10gr, which is a compressed load) so I'm hoping my less than max load will be well below the 1250fps stated limit for Berry's.

I have a ton of 125gr cast bullets that I bought cheap for 38 special(about $.05 each) although that is not my preferred weight for 38 special. I think the barrel in my Super is .355, but I'll probably slug it. If it's closer to .357, I'll try the 125gr .358 bullets in it.

I know that factory Super ammo has sort of a bad reputation, but I think I can get Fioochi locally and I know important auto pistol ammo tends to be loaded hotter than American. I may pick up a box to try.
 
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I have a Kimber Stainless Target II in .38 Super that I only run target handloads through. I tried numerous powders in it - Clays, TiteGroup, W231, Bullseye and AutoComp - with 125-grain lead semi-wadcutters exclusively. The powder I found most accurate and very clean-burning to boot is AutoComp. I load 5.5 grains of it in Starline Comp or Remington brass with a CCI 500 primer.

Regarding bullet diameter, .38 Supers are supposed to use .356" bullets but in the never ending search for that "magic" load, I've tried .355" and .357" bullets as well. The .355s were less accurate but the .356s and .357s shot the same. I've settled on the Missouri Bullets IPD#6 bullet but Precision Cast, Hunter Supply and I'm sure other companies sell what appear to be bullets made with the same mold.

I really enjoy shooting my Super. The recoil is mild and 1911s are SO much easier to clean than a revolver. It's a shame so few 1911 manufacturers offer that chambering.

Ed
 
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I use CFE 7.2 gr. in a super comp case,( tweaked extractor) with a 115 gr. XTP in my Colt. 1375 -90 fps. No flash and good shooting.
 
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jeeps said:
I use CFE 7.2 gr. in a super comp case,( tweaked extractor) with a 115 gr. XTP in my Colt. 1375 -90 fps. No flash and good shooting.
Click to expand...

Although I can't shoot the gun until next week, I did put together some dummy rounds to test my OAL, headspacing, crimp, and other function.

I couldn't find a set of 38 Super dies anywhere in town, so ended up buying a set of Lee 38 S&W dies. Although I had to buy another shell plate(Hornady #8, in case anyone needs this for reference) the dies work fine. In fact, the sizing die Lee included is actually marked "38 Auto/Super"(or something to that effect). I put a 38 special expander in the expanding die to prevent oversizing the brass, and adjusted the crimp on the seating die just enough just to knock the edge off the neck.

In any case, I made up 3 dummy rounds. When manually cycling the gun, these loaded, chambered, and ejected just fine. I also measured no set-back even after cycling one round through the gun a dozen times(I used a micrometer to measure). All my loaded rounds also "plunk tested" just fine in the barrel out of the gun.

I'm anxious to get to the range and try this one out.
 
124gr XTP, 7.2 Power Pistol....

147TC (lead) 3.3 Bullseye...

The lighter load might require a spring change at the least, Large radius firing pin stop at the most. This is my Bullseye competition load. Fusion 6"

The Power Pistol load should be worked up too, although it used to be listed as a max load by alliant, it is VERY warm. This is my SD load in a Kimber pro carry HD.

Both these loads easily do under 1" groups @ 25yds offhand. If your interested I'll look up my OAL.
 
I have pretty well standardized on the following load for the Super which gives me great accuracy and power in each of my 5 Supers.

Starline brass, Missouri cast 135 grn LRN, 7.5 grns of SR4756, cci500 primer, 1.272 COL, med crimp.

This gives me 1303 FPS 17 SD and 66 ES for a 20 shot string.

Here is how it does on paper 50 shots, 15 yrds offhand

lb2_012112.jpg

lb6_012112.jpg
 
Ben,
Handloader #236 has a good article on loading the 38 Super. My everyday load is a 122gr Penn lfp. OAL is 1.175. 5.8gr of 231. Makes 1280fps from my 5 inch guns. It also shoots well from my Colt Govt. 9x23. In my opinion, the 9x23 out performs the 38Super in every way. Dean
 
Just thought I'd report back that I finally got a chance to spend some time at the range to to try things out.

I 9.5gr Blue Dot under a 115gr Berry's 9mm bullet(.355). This was definitely a lot hotter than the factory ammo I shot(it gave an impressive fireball and report). I managed to get most of 100 rounds through one big hole in the target, so I think the load has potential although I'm not sure whether its the load or the "nut behind the trigger" that needs work.

I also shot the 100 handloads and two mags(18 rounds) of Silvertips without a single malfunction. I was alternating between the mag that cam with my gun and a Wilson Combat that I picked up locally, and saw no difference in function between either magazine.

I'm going to play around with powders and bullets some more, but I'm pretty happy at least with my initial attempts.

I'll also add that this was actually my first time using Blue Dot. I used to think Unique was dirty, but I'm pretty sure that Blue Dot is its evil twin :)
 
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Best powders I have found are Silhouette and AA7. Goal is groups under 2" at 25 yards.
0.356-0.357" jacketed bullets work best. JHP works better than FMJ-RN. Zero 121gn 38 super JHP is excellent.
 
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