I have a M31-1 that I carry frequently.

It's a late production model made in the early 1980's (post pinned barrel).

I would like a hand load that generates 900 - 950 FPS when using a 115 gr round nose flat point like the Oregon laser cast product.

Oregon Trail Bullet Company Shop - Oregon Trail Bullet Company

Buffalobore has such a product, but with a slightly lower velocity.

The gun has a 2" barrel.

Is this level of performance feasible in a 2" gun?

What powders would get me there?

At 900+ FPS with a 115 gr bullet from a 2" barrel I would have higher ME than common 38 sp. SD loads like the Hornady 110gr critical defense actually generate with this barrel length.

I sure would be interested in hearing what folks have to say on this topic; I myself have never played with bullets over 100 gr for this caliber.

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Now go make God proud...

My old Speer only has a 95 cast swc maxed out at 946 fps with Herco.

The 32 magnum can get a 110gr jacket up to around 1208 fps.

With the new powders you should be able to get near the 900 fps in that weapon. Hope to hear good news from someone, also.

You do mean 900-950 FPS, don't you?

I think this might get you into handloading delinquency, but it can probably be done "safely" as long as you never use your loads in an older revolver that is not as strong as your Model 31-1.

I used to load a 103-gr RCBS wadcutter to over 1000 FPS in my Model 31 with 231, and I thought the load data was published somewhere (possibly in an older Lyman manual) but I have not been able to find it so I don't mention the charge weight. You're trying to go 10% heavier and 2-inches shorter than what I did, but you are also backing off about 100 FPS. I think my load went 1040 FPS in a 4-inch gun.

"I believe" what you are trying to do is certainly possible, and probably even "safe" to do in your modern revolver, but I don't think you will find published data that you can rely on. As Erich said, if you find it, I sure hope you will share it with us. I wouldn't be surprised if AA2 or AA5 might be in the hunt for such a load.

I've shot many of the loads I described through my Model 31 (maybe 1000 or a bit more) and I have never seen any indication of trouble. One thing to remember about Model 31s: they do seem to have pretty generous chamber dimensions. You are likely to see some "Glocked"-appearing cases. If you are nervous about that, then pushing the loads beyond published levels will probably only add to your anxiety.

My guess would be that within the limitations of the .32SWL

you may not be able to achieve your stated goal.

In Ken Waters Pet Loads a 112 grain cast bullet @ 960 FPS was possible only with a 6" barrel.

In a 2" barrel 800 FPS is listed for a 91 grain cast bullet with 3.5 grains of Unique.

Perhaps a newer powder and a chronograph may yield a faster combination.

but I doubt it.

It reminds me of the British attempt at a better 38 round with the 200 grain bullet. Velocities were low in the 600 fps range.

I'm waiting to try the heavier bullets in the .327 Federal.

Anyhow it doesn't hurt to try. I would suggest a change to a large set of stocks. I have found the small ones to be quite snappy even with the modest loads.

BLM

I don't know what ammunition you are using now. FWIW Pet Loads lists Remington 98 grain@ 632 fps and Winchester 98 grain @ 626 fps in a 2" barrel.

Some older loading manuals had some warm loads for the 32 S&W with heavier than standard bullets. There were no pressure figures listed for them.

A thread on Cast Boolits may help, it's a long one: The .32 S&W Long as a man-stopper

I've not read it in a while, it could be helpful in your search. HTH, 30calflash.

Right, I meant FPS.

My goal, admittedly a bit arbitrary, is to reach 200 ft lbs ME.

So 100 gr hard cast wadcutter at 950-1000 FPS would also do the trick.

This 31-1 is my only 32 S&W firearm, so the problem of accidentally using it in a very old gun doesn't come up.

Have you considered going the opposite direction?

In Speer #14 the 60 grain GDHP has loads listed @ 1000 FPS in a 3" barrel.

Checking the Ballistics By The Inch website for velocities on the various .32's may be the best way to compare loads in various barrel lengths.
The included muzzle energy chart shows even a 60 grain.32 only achieves 120 ft-# in a 2" barrel @ 944 fps.

It would appear that what you desire is not possible in a 2" barrel.

Only the .327 Federal makes the 200 ft-# with a 115 grain bullet @ 1042 fps. in a 2" barrel.

Good luck.

BLM

Let me cast around and see if I can find the published data for the W231 load I have been using. I would bet that since that load is clocking 1040 FPS in my 4-inch gun you could count on 950 or so in your 2-inch, if all else is equal. If I can find the published data, I will cite it later in this thread.

Incidentally, the RCBS design (basically it is a mini-.44 Keith bullet) works very well in my gun, and since it is longish in the nose it does make for a bit of extra powder room. It has always been very accurate when sized 0.313". I'd prefer .314 if the mold would do it, but with my not-too-scientific alloy the bullets usually won't clean up at .314. The .313 die hardly touches them.

"Only the .327 Federal makes the 200 ft-# with a 115 grain bullet @ 1042 fps. in a 2" barrel."

The desire to magnumize the .32 SWl has already been done in the .32 H&R and the .327 Federal.

While a modest gain is possible it will be at an increased pressure level possibly well beyond the limits of the .32 SWL.

The above quote is not the whole story. That kind of performance was achieved at over 36,000 psi and possibly over 40,000 psi.

I believe the .32 SWL operates at around 15,000 psi.

So proceed with all due caution but don't expect .327 power in the SWL.

Due to the slightly oversize chambers as noted, I would add no more than a tenth of a grain at a time to a proven load and run it over a chronograph.

A powder I found that works well is SR7625. Very clean in the .32.

Be safe, but if you need more power, you really need a different gun.

BLM

As warm as I have been willing to try in my 31-1 is 2.5 gr. of Bullseye with a 115 gr. cast bullet seated long at 1.32". It is load proven by many others at the cast boolits forum. It is supposed to be an 800-850 fps plus load depending on barrel lenght. That is still quite short of your goal, however.

I use a 100 gr. flat tip cowboy bulletover 3.5 to 4max. with Unique.in the Colt DS 32 new police and SW M30-1.Why tear up a good gun??

Before everyone begins harping on how this is too much pressure for a .32 S&W Long I will tell you that I have been shooting this load in both my K-32 and Model 30 as long as I have owned them, which is 49 years for the K-32 and 47 years for the M-30. This (actually a bit heavier) was published in older (1950-1960s period) Lyman manuals.

The published load was 4.3 gr. (max.) Unique with a 100-115 gr. bullet. Specifically the Lyman 3118. The times I chronographed this the alloy I was using gave a weight of 111 gr. This was loaded with 4.0 Unique and chronographed (Oehler 35P) at 1113 and 1097 FPS on two trials. This was from the K-32 (6"). I didn't chronograph any in the M-30 (3"), but using the usual 25-50 FPS loss per inch this load should fall somewhere between 900-1000 FPS in a 2", and 25-50 FPS more in the 3" gun.

I did chronograph the Speer 100 gr. JHP w/4.1 gr. Unique in my 4" SP-101 .32 H&R (.32 S&WL case), and it gave 1008 FPS, and 1034 in my 4 1/4" 631. This should be in the 900-950 range in a 2", and a bit faster with a cast vs/jacketed bullet. So, all nay-sayers aside 900-950 are very possible in a 2" .32.

Both S&Ws have been fired with these loads literally thousands of times with no negative result over the past nearly 50 years!

My copy of the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook, Third Edition (1980), has similar data with some older powders - indicating to me at least that modern solid-frame S&Ws are quite capable of handling a 100-105 gr lead bullet at 1000 FPS, and probably 115s too. Unfortunately, they do not specifically address Winch. 231 and the particular RCBS bullet (naturally ) that I use, so my load - very close to one they list for their 313226 bullet, which is somewhat lighter - could be called "adventurous handloading."

They do list three pretty sturdy loads for the 3118 (115 gr) bullet at around 1000 FPS with one just over 1100 FPS - unfortunately with obsolete powders (unless you can find a can of HS-5 or 630 lying around).

Like Alk8944 with his Unqiue loads, I am not the slightest bit concerned about the 231 load I use. I have used it quite a while and never had anything but good results with it. But, unfortunately, if you really want to crack 1000 FPS, or close to it, with a 115, I think you are going to have the take matters into your own hands. As long as one uses a little common sense, it seems likely you could do it and stay out of trouble. (In other words, do not intrude into the available powder space with a particularly deep-seated bullet design.)

My Lyman book does list a 7625 load (3.0 grs) that is running around 870 FPS with the 3118 - not that far away from the low end of your goal - and nothing to sneeze at. Good luck!

Thanks everyone.

Does anyone know if Bullseye would work for hot 32 S&W loads?

The reason I ask is I don't have any Unique, but do have a couple cans of Bullseye.

I also have Trail Boss that would be good for light practice loads.

Based on what I've seen in my .32 S&W Long handloading, Bullseye would not be the way I'd go (max charges of BE result in slow, accurate loads - and we all know how low-volume BE is responsible for blowing up mischarged guns). I've had good results with Unique, 7625 and Green Dot (of all things).

I've posted a link here to Phil Sharpe's 1930s book on reloading (you can probably find it by searching here on my username and "Sharpe"), and I can tell you that I've had good luck with the load data in that book in my solid frame (would not use his max data in break-tops) .32 S&W Long revolvers. No 115-grainers, tho (that I can recall) in there.

__________________
Now go make God proud...

I've been searching for some pressure testing to verify my warning about excessive pressure in the SWL.

While I agree that the K frame in .32 is a more than adequate platform for increased loads we should be cautious when pushing the envelope.

In and old Lyman book, which no longer has a cover, there is some good loading information.

The most Bullseye listed is 2.7 grains with a 95 grain cast bullet @ 910 fps.

A load of 4.3 grains of Unique with the same bullet @1010 fps.

With a 105 grain cast bullet 2.1 grains of Bullseye @ 745 fps.

The same bullet with 4 grains of Unique @ 980 fps.

I'm sure that these are not 2" barrel velocities but move beyond some of the current reload data.

I personally would have no problem putting 4 grains of Unique behind a 100 grain cast Missouri flat point in the SWL case. I would first test fire it in the Single seven before putting it in the model 30 or 31. Also there is the option of long seating the bullet as long as it fits the cylinder.

I'm currently using 4.2 grains of Unique with the 100 grain bullet in the Single Seven .327 as my go to plinking load. At this level there is no leading.

I believe that loads beyond the normal data produce pressures in the 20,000 psi plus range very quickly.

While we can put any amount of powder we so desire in a case and cap it with a bullet of our choosing remember to work it up slowly.

BLM

I personally wouldn't try that in my 2" Pre 30. I would try it in a 16-4. I seriously doubt you can get 900-950 with a 115 bullet out of a 2" (safely).

__________________
H Richard
SWCA1967 SWHF244

Thank you for your support. I've been the naysayer here as far as 200 foot pounds of energy out of a 2" barrel.

All I've heard is crickets so far despite my .327 Federal pressure level warning that is required to meet the 1000 fps necessary.

Good news today a box of RNFP 115 grain cast bullets was found on a shelf waiting to be rescued.

These are from the Nevada Bullet company and these look great.

Looks like they were on the shelf for years. I'll try some in a model 31 while I wait for the return of my Single Seven.

BLM

First I would like to thank the OP Cal44 for a most interesting thread on the .32.

Gunfan /Scott a member who has disappeared from the boards would have loved to jump in on this discussion.

You got me thinking about what is necessary to achieve your stated goal.

So what other caliber regularly shoots 115 grain bullets at 1000 FPS?

The 9mm comes to mind and charges such as 5 grains of Bullseye and six grains of Unique will exceed 1000 fps in a four inch barrel.

The problem is the pressure exceeds 30,000 psi.

Here's where it gets interesting. A sized 9mm case holds 74 grains of water.
A sized .32 SWL case holds 61.7 grains of water.

So the SWL case overall has less capacity than the 9mm. This also does not take into account bullet depth into the case.

The other factors such as loose chambers and barrel length and the cylinder gap will also deprive the SWL of velocity.

So FWIW I think that 800 FPS + is about all that can safely be expected
from a 2" J frame within safe pressure limits with a 115 grain bullet.

That also may be at plus-P pressure levels.

Well unless I'm completely wrong, I've had my fun for today.

BLM

I'll probably just stick with the Buffalo Bore loads.

There isn't much in the way of chrono data for these loads out these,
but the article below listed the following results from a 2" revolver:

"The Buffalo Bore 115 .32 S&W Long yielded about 771 from a S&W 2″ barrel, while the 100-gr. WC delivered 852 fps. from the same gun."

The .32 S&W Long & .38 Smith & Wesson | American Handgunner


This gives a ME of 161 for the 100 gr wadcutter load.

That load should work just fine. It is much more than I expected.

I'm going to load some 115 LRN bullets with some Unique and run them through a model 31.

Should be quite snappy. I just wonder how far I can go safely with Unique.

A tenth of a grain makes a big difference in a small case.

BLM

I dont know what kind of grains you're measuring, or what kind of atomic "heavy water" you're using... but every batch of .32 S&W Long cases I've ever tested has an average capacity of 12.5 grains of water. And 9mm ~11.6-12.0 grains of water

I think you are referring to the weight of the case, NOT it's capacity.

That's a nice powder for 32 Long. I'm not going to hot rod an old timer like that so all you cowboys that need your fun go ahead on without me.

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That's just somebody talkin.

I had a 31 for several years. It did with fine with the 115 gr. bullet and either 2.0 or 2.5 grains of Bullseye. OAL was 1.31-.32”.