9mm overall length

fuzzymcnab

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I am working up some loads for the Berry's 124-125 grain plated round nose bullet. Since they do not have listed load data, I am comparing this bullet to other manufacturers 124-125 FMJ to select OAL. I am finding a fairly large discrepancy. They range from 1.109 to 1.165". With the short case of the 9mm, I am concerned about seating to deeply, yet I don't want to seat too far out and reduce burn efficiency. Is this difference too small to worry about? Thanks to all for your volumes of expertise.
fuzzy.
 
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Start with the OAL (and charge range) listed as tested by the POWDER manufacturer you are using. EG, if using WSF, Hodgdon's reload data used 1.169".

Of course you may need to adjust if your pistol doesn't like to feed that OAL. If so, do it with confidence and work UP safely as usual.
 
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As you experiment with different loads, you will find a "Goldilocks"(just right) OAL for that particular powder bullet combination. As an example, I use 1.150 for CFE pistol and a 124 plated bullet. I get a 136 minor power factor, but my 172 major power factor load, I use Autocomp and a 1.165 OAL. Both cycle reliably but if I load my major load to 1.15, it's compressed a bit.
 
Yes, OAL does have quite an impact. I was just testing 147 Gr. 9mm (Bayou coated) the last couple days. Using the same load of Power Pistol, (4.5 Gr), and adjusting the OAL from 1.135 to 1.105 increased the velocity by 29 FPS, I don't know what it may have raised the pressure to, but I am still under max load, and still longer than the Lyman Cast bullet manual states for this bullet (Donnie @ Bayou advises using the cast bullet data). By the way this has proved to be a very accurate load.
 
I am working up some loads for the Berry's 124-125 grain plated round nose bullet. Since they do not have listed load data, I am comparing this bullet to other manufacturers 124-125 FMJ to select OAL.

Accurate Arms has data for this bullet published on their website. They are using 1.160" overall length. Might take a look at their data and see if there is something there you can use.
 
I have use the 115gr RN (fmj) style plated bullet from 1.110" to 1.14" with good results.

The 124gr plated RN has gone from 1.12" to 1.169" OAL in a lot of my tests and the longer OAL has given me very good accuracy in GI and standard cases. A LOT depends on the OAL that will work in your pistol.

You can save a LOT of powder with a minimum OAL and use a LOT more powder with the maximum OAL but also have a lot lower pressure.

If you go to JHP bullets you will need to start all over since their shape does not work with the RN and the powder volume will change and cause different pressures.

Good luck figuring out the "Puzzle" of what your pistol likes.
 
I load my semi-auto ammo as long as possible without going over the MAX OAL" for that cartridge (9mm=1.169") and still pass the plunk test in the intended pistol. Record that measurement & use it next time you load the exact same components. Different bullet shapes mean different OAL".

Don't worry about the OAL" reducing burn efficiency in such a small case.

.
 
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Where do folks get the idea that any manual knows what COL is best for their guns. Just the throat length varies barrel-to-barrel, much less other variables. The powder manufacturer, in particular, is no more knowledgable about your gun then any one else. About the only thing that can be said about the COL in manual is that if you load shorter, you might increase pressure. However, as long as you start at the starting load, it will work out.
Per Ramshot:
"SPECIAL NOTE ON CARTRIDGE OVERALL LENGTH “COL”
It is important to note that the SAAMI “COL” values are for the firearms and ammunition manufacturers industry and must be seen as a guideline only.
The individual reloader is free to adjust this dimension to suit their particular firearm-component-weapon combination.
This parameter is determined by various dimensions such as
1) magazine length (space),
2) freebore-lead dimensions of
the barrel,
3) ogive or profile of the projectile and
4) position of cannelure or crimp groove.
• Always begin loading at the minimum "Start Load".
• Increase in 2% increments towards the Maximum Load.
• Watch for signs of excessive pressure.
• Never exceed the Maximum Load."

Your COL (OAL) is determined by your barrel (chamber and throat dimensions) and your gun (feed ramp) and your magazine (COL that fits magazine and when the magazine lips release the round for feeding) and the PARTICULAR bullet you are using. What worked in a pressure barrel or the lab's gun or in my gun has very little to do with what will work best in your gun.
Take the barrel out of the gun. Create two inert dummy rounds (no powder or primer) at max COL and remove enough case mouth flare for rounds to chamber (you can achieve this by using a sized case—expand-and-flare it, and remove the flare just until the case "plunks" in the barrel).
Drop the inert rounds in and decrease the COL until they chamber completely. This will be your "max" effective COL. I prefer to have the case head flush with the barrel hood. After this, place the inert rounds in the magazine and be sure they fit the magazine and feed and chamber.
You can also do this for any chambering problems you have. Remove the barrel and drop rounds in until you find one that won't chamber. Take that round and "paint" the bullet and case black with Magic Marker or other marker. Drop round in barrel (or gage) and rotate it back-and-forth.
Remove and inspect the round:
1) scratches on bullet--COL is too long
2) scratches on edge of the case mouth--insufficient crimp
3) scratches just below the case mouth--too much crimp, you're crushing the case
4) scratches on case at base of bullet--bullet seated crooked due to insufficient case expansion (not case mouth flare) or improper seating stem fit
5) scratches on case just above extractor groove--case bulge not removed during sizing. May need a bulge buster.
 
OAL seems to confuse a lot of reloaders, even exp ones. I tell all new reloaders; OAL is always bullet & gun specific, always, regardless of the data.
Load to the longest that fits your gun with a specific bullet. That means chamber & all the way down the mag. As long as the bullet has enough support inside the case & does not wedge into the rifling, you are gtg.
As to pressures, yes smaller volume cases with faster powders presents pressure problems. As long as you stay off max loads, using minor or midrange, there isn't a big diff between 1.050 & 1.160. If you change bullets, your OAL will almost always change.
 
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Your problem is revealed in your statement about "discrepancies". There are none, there is no exact length or powder weight. The manuals simply show the results of "their" testing under "their" parameters. Experiment within those boundaries (some do so outside) and find what works for you. Next time you buy bullets or powder you may have to try something new because of availability so you get to start all over again. That's half the fun of reloading.
 
Even in these posts there are differences in nomenclature that causes confusion. "OAL" means OVER ALL LENGTH of cartridge with bullet. So does "COL," it means CARTRIDGE OVER ALL LENGTH. If we all used the same terminology it would help. I always think "OAL" because in 40 plus years of manufacturing that term was used.
 
Within the context of the conversation about cartridge overall length, COAL, COL, & OAL are appropriately interchangeable.

.
 
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Bluedot37's advice in his first response explained the matter best with the fewest words. I'd go with that.
 
There was so much good information in all of the responses, I will not even attempt to respond to all. However, I will copy it all and paste it into a document on the OAL subject for my library. I will say that over many years I have considered the bullet manufacturer's OAL data to be the best guideline, but not all the bullet companies have load data. Nonetheless, this is great input and I will start this current load I am working on at the longer end, of course considering barrel and magazine clearances. Thanks again to all. You just can't buy this kind of expertise. I wish I could return the favor, but I just aint' that smart.
fuzzy
 
OAL is set by the company when it test it's loads.
Bullet weight (length), Dia., and Ogive and amount of power
all play a part on their data, as well as the chambers specs.

This picture gives one an idea of what they are up against with just the bullets Ogive.......

2n8y4qp.jpg
 
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