I'm contemplating a 460 S&W. I currently reload 9mm,38/357,40/10,44sp/44m. I looked/searched without finding an answer either yes or no,can one die set accommodate all 3 in the thread title ?
45LC,454Casull,460S&W Magnum Dies
- Thread starter oldman10mm
- Start date
That is not a Yes or No answer
Odds are against a single set of dies having enough adjustment in the seating and crimping dies to accommodate that big of a difference in case length
If you buy a 460 set and add a 45LC seating and crimping die you will probably be good to go. It all depends on whose dies we are talking about.
Truthfully, unless you own a 454 Casull. I can not imagine why you would want to start loading it.
Use the 45LC brass for 45 LC loads and use the 460 brass for everything else.
NO, The 460 is loaded with 460 Dies,
The 45 Colt Will load 45 Colt and 454 Casull
So you need 2 sets of dies.
If you by chance want a Lee Factory crimp die, the one for the 45 Colt works on the 460 SW Magnum, (crazy, but that's the way it is)
You missed out, I just sold all my 460 dies, brass and bullets. and the 5" gun. It is brutal!
But the yes part, the gun will shoot all 3 calibers.
The 45 Colt Will load 45 Colt and 454 Casull
So you need 2 sets of dies.
If you by chance want a Lee Factory crimp die, the one for the 45 Colt works on the 460 SW Magnum, (crazy, but that's the way it is)
You missed out, I just sold all my 460 dies, brass and bullets. and the 5" gun. It is brutal!
But the yes part, the gun will shoot all 3 calibers.
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OP
Thanks for replies. I realize it can chamber/shoot all three,that's why I'm contemplating it. I shoot 44M(29s'/629) and it's my favorite to shoot with full power loads,so maybe it's time to step up. With case lengths of 1.28"/45LC and 1.38"/454,I figured that would be same die action as 38/357,44sp/44M. The 460/1.79" case length being .41" over the 454 was in question. I have 45LC,454,& 460 brass and figured the 454 would provide a power level between 45LC and 460. I don't hunt,just a paper puncher.
I can not shoot mine anymore due to shoulder surgery. My main reason was to be able to load Ruger only 45 Colt Loads. Those are more than sufficient!
The 460 SW can only download a little (I used Longshot) it was still a beast. The full power 460's for me were insane even with lighter bullets. Plus it was a "short" 5" barrel. Let the young guys play with it and the 500. The 44 Mag is enough for me!
Full load 460 SW is 65,000 PSI, more than a 30-06 It was not the recoil so much. but the concussion or shock wave!
The 460 SW can only download a little (I used Longshot) it was still a beast. The full power 460's for me were insane even with lighter bullets. Plus it was a "short" 5" barrel. Let the young guys play with it and the 500. The 44 Mag is enough for me!
Full load 460 SW is 65,000 PSI, more than a 30-06 It was not the recoil so much. but the concussion or shock wave!
OP
I'm old,68,140 lbs,6'1" and thoroughly enjoy 44M full power.
Speer #12 has some good reduced loads for the S&W 460..l use 45 Colt dies for my 25-3 and the 4 die Hornady set to load my 460 S&W. l shoot
ONLY full length brass in my 460 PC Hunter. l don't need burn rings to
complicate shooting such a high pressure ctg. .. No 454 Casull I my 460
ONLY full length brass in my 460 PC Hunter. l don't need burn rings to
complicate shooting such a high pressure ctg. .. No 454 Casull I my 460
I tried to use my Lee 45 Colt Deluxe dies for the 460 when I got my 460 Carry. At least one die, I don't remember for sure which one right now, had to be barely screwed in the press to work on the 460 case, which I didn't like. Went ahead & bought the Hornady 4 die set for the 460.
Two related dies that I added:
- Lyman "M" expander die (#7340832) works with 45ACP, 45Colt, 454C, & 460Mag. It has plenty of range & their expander plugs have good depth (great for cast lead bullets). I didn't care for the Hornady expander.
- Lyman Taper crimp die (#7153107) also works with all four cartridges & is good to use with plated bullets, w/o cannelure, in the revolver cartridges.
I've gone to using only 460Mag cases in the 460. Like sw282 said, it saves on burn/residue rings that you don't want when you fire a full power 460 loads in it.
If you try to shoot cast lead bullets in 45 Colt/454C cases, in the 460, that .41" distance you mentioned (which is ~.481" dia.) to the throat will be problematic. Obviously a .452" bullet can't seal in that part of the chamber. Lots of blow-by.
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Two related dies that I added:
- Lyman "M" expander die (#7340832) works with 45ACP, 45Colt, 454C, & 460Mag. It has plenty of range & their expander plugs have good depth (great for cast lead bullets). I didn't care for the Hornady expander.
- Lyman Taper crimp die (#7153107) also works with all four cartridges & is good to use with plated bullets, w/o cannelure, in the revolver cartridges.
I've gone to using only 460Mag cases in the 460. Like sw282 said, it saves on burn/residue rings that you don't want when you fire a full power 460 loads in it.
If you try to shoot cast lead bullets in 45 Colt/454C cases, in the 460, that .41" distance you mentioned (which is ~.481" dia.) to the throat will be problematic. Obviously a .452" bullet can't seal in that part of the chamber. Lots of blow-by.
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OP
Sunday I went to Fin Feather Fur In Middleburg Heights Ohio to look at S&Ws' two big ones. They had the 460 5"(1369 MSRP) for 1160+T and the 500 6.4"(1299 MSRP) for 1120+T. Based upon the replies in the aspect of different reloading dies and excessive bullet jump in the chambers when using 45LC and 454 in a 460 gun,it might be better to look at the 500 where it can be tamed down with the use of 500 special brass and loads. I've investigated that aspect too and supposedly the 500 special takes it down to 44M full power levels. Thoughts ?
I prefer the 460 but that is just me.(if I could still shoot it)For the price of either gun, whats an extra $40 or whatever for different dies?
If you plan on 500 special then you have the same issue with "bullet jump" which makes no sense?? Same as 38 special in a 357?
It's a personal choice.
OP
I stand corrected on my ASSUMPTION of the 500special. I thought it would be a small case length difference,but it's not,.351" so the scenario of bullet jump would almost be as bad as the .410-.510" situation of the 460.
ruggyh
SWCA Member
I would second suggestion to all handloaders of 460 cartridge, use only 460 cases. You can load those to any power level achieved by the shorter cartridges.
Remember for reduced loads IMR Trailboss is your friend and is a no brainier.
Avoid potential double charges by selecting powders with case fills above 80%.
ALL other load levels can be achieve with A2400, #9, H110, N110, IMR 4227, Lil'gun or Enforcer depending on bullet weight.
Good luck and be safe
Ruggy
Remember for reduced loads IMR Trailboss is your friend and is a no brainier.
Avoid potential double charges by selecting powders with case fills above 80%.
ALL other load levels can be achieve with A2400, #9, H110, N110, IMR 4227, Lil'gun or Enforcer depending on bullet weight.
Good luck and be safe
Ruggy
If reloading cost is a factor, & when isn't it, go with the 460. For one, bullet availablity, & bullet choices, are a lot better & much cheaper. As already stated, just stay with 460 Mag brass & load them to the power you prefer. Reduced 460 data is sparse but plenty of 454C data available, using different powders & bullets.
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OP
Reloading cost is not a factor,I have brass for both guns,plenty of primers,variety of powders. I've been planning on getting both but investigated the 460 more first. Maybe the 500 will be first,still on the fence.
roscoepc
Member
I presently own the 500 with the 8, 3/8" barrel and interchangeable compensator. It's been stated in several threads that the 500 is a reloaders gun for several reasons not the least of which is cost! Also you can tune the round to your and the guns "Tastes" as far as recoil and accuracy.
I started rolling my own this last January using 350gr JHP XTP Hornady bullets with Hornady brass and 12.2 grains of Titegroup. This produces approximately 1100fps which is in the range of the 500 Special specs. So far, this is the round that mine likes as far as accuracy and recoil which is very manageable and similar to the M-29 I used to have! Shooting 100 rounds at the range is not a problem and more would not be out of the question!
Why the 350gr?? I've shot 270gr Federal Vital Shoks, 350gr Winchester Reduced Recoil rounds and the 400gr Winchester Platinum tips and the 350gr Winchester suited me as the best of the bunch!
The 400gr was a nice solid/smooth kick but not really suitable for extended range use. The 270gr was a definite surprise as it had a very sharp kick with noticeable barrel rise very similar to a hot .357 Magnum!!
The Hornady rounds cost about $.85 per round to produce and I've since bought some 350gr CSN Berry's bullets and that has the cost down to $.30 per round!! Life is Good!!!
I hope this helps and have Fun!!
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I reluctantly bought some B***y's bullets to try for the same reason, cost. They're just the cheapest ($.23/ea) I could find for paper punching. Dimensionally they're a little undersized with the base's edge being the largest diameter. I did a smash test & the lead core seems to be fairly hard & the plating stayed attached. They're rated to 2000fps.
I shot some the other day with vaious powders & they semed to do fine. I did notice some started to jump crimp after firing just two rounds. Plated bullets are pretty slick & the cannelure is not very deep but I think I can try a little harder crimp next time. I'm a big fan of Xtreme's bullets but they don't make them for 50 caliber yet. How do your bullets look?
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roscoepc
Member
What do you mean by "Jump crimp"?? As far as how they look, I've not recovered any rounds that I've shot and remember: I'm running a fairly low powered load for the 500, As far as accuracy, so far, they are very comparable to the 350gr XTP Hornaday bullet's....
Recoil/inertia induced unseating of the bullet in an adjacent unfired chamber. Before firing, the case mouth is on/in the cannelure & after the cannelure is forward of the case mouth.
I loaded some tonight & used as little case/mouth expansion as I could & crimped them a tad harder. I noticed it with the Unique load (faster powder, quicker impulse) but the slower powders didn't seem to do it. Wasn't getting good ignition in the I4227 load either. Maybe this will help that too.
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roscoepc
Member
I'll check the next time I'm shooting! When I expand the case mouth for bullet seating it only slides in less than 1/8". And then I make sure to get a nice slightly rounded crimp like the factory rounds...
