I got so tired of hearing stories on this and other Forums regarding W231 Powder that I decided to call Hodgedon Powder directly to find out if the rumors of W231 being discontinued are true or false.

According to one of their customer Service Technical Guys, W231 is NOT being discontinued, nor is HP-38 which is the same powder being manufactured with a different label. He told me he too has heard the rumors but as far as he and other employees know, there are no plans for discontinuing it.

Thank you Thank you. I was going to call but figured they already had enough calls. I just bought 8 Lbs from Powder Valley so as in the other thread going, that should last me a the rest of my life.

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Still Running Against the Wind

I'll know when it's time to stop buying in bulk when my wife tells me to stop buying green bananas. Guess if I bought an 8# jugs of HP-38 it would be shortly after she saw the credit card statement.

Bananas (from the store) last about a day down here. I do have banana trees (bushes) but they are the minis. Got a bunch growing right now!

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Still Running Against the Wind

Judging by the abundance of both powders on the shelves--it's been discontinued for a long time!

It just goes to show you, you can't believe everything on the web. Why would a company discontinue the most popular product they make, it makes no business sense at all. It would have been a huge loss for them.

5 years ago my service manager told me the owner has no plans to sell and business is good. 2 weeks later the owner had a conference call to announce he sold...

True, you never know what will happen.

Even though HP38/Win231 is a very popular powder, the memo about the production of it (at St Marks in Florida, General Dynamics) May be true. It may very well be a old school process and harder to make, more pollutants etc etc. Hopefully if it, or any popular powder is discontinued they will have a new technology one that can take it's place.

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Still Running Against the Wind

The thing is the only powders I have ever heard of been discontinued are the ones that don’t sell well. Not the ones they can’t make enough of. They could raise the price to cover any extra expense and it would still sell out quickly. Discontinuing it doesn’t make any sense. The only thing I can think of is that General Dynamics doesn’t care about the small profit made from powder sales and is concentrating on selling a new aircraft carrier.

Win 231/HP-38 is manufactured by General Dynamics in St. Marks, FL, NOT by Hodgdon. If General Dynamics decides they aren't going to make this powder anymore Hodgdon can only announce that it's been discontinued. Because a small distributor like Hodgdon has no say at all it what is manufactured at what is essentially a Government Powder Manufacturing facility.

As for the idea that some private company should start up a plant to make Smokeless Powder for the Reloading Market, that won't ever happen. Because the Government won't ever issue a license for a plant manufacturing Smokeless Powder for the Reloading Market. As for why, there is a stage in the manufacture of Nitro Cellulose when it's an EXTREMELY sensitive Contact Explosive. Look at it crosseyed or allow the humidity level in the facility get in to the Static Zone and you could be looking at a blast on the scale of the recent explosion in China.

BTW, I suspect that blast in China wasn't a "warehouse" going up, I suspect that it was a facility manufacturing or storing three potential Chemical Products. One is Ammonium Nitrate for fertilizer. Two is the manufacture of the base for Solid Rocket Motors. Three is Smokeless Powder for the manufacture of ammunition. Because in all 3 cases there is a notable history of facilities manufacturing and storing these compounds blowing up in a monumental blast.

A lot of talk about powder is completely moot to me because if I never see it, it doesn't make one bit of difference what 'they' are going to do or what people say that 'they' are going to do. To me it's just fun to talk about in absence of the real thing. Poor substitute but that's the way it's been.

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"He was kinda funny lookin'"

If it follows the old Olin method, it's probably one of the safest, cleanest processes in the powder industry.

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it just needs more voltage

Some good points here fellas....... All we can do is HOPE that the gentleman I spoke to ah Hodgedon Powder yesterday was correct. OK, that said, I guess my phone call was sort of a moot point - depending on what the manufacturing company feels like doing.

Still, I also spoke to Midsouth last week and even they say they are still getting shipments of W231 in from Hodgedon.

I'd just like to know where to get some. It's almost not worth continuing to try. I'm down to my last 1lb.

Powder Valley just had a whole lot of it. Bought 8lbs. Gotta keep looking and be quick.

Came to $21/lb with the haz mat fee.

Member Novalty has put a lot of time and effort into this thread.

**DAILY** In-Stock Reloading NOTICES

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Still Running Against the Wind

Just looked after reading your previous post. "Out of Stock" Is the darn stuff that popular?

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It was about a week ago. Mine is scheduled to be deliver tomorrow, It's popular and has not been around so when it comes in it goes fast, Kinda like 22lr at Wal Mart.

If you want powder you need to be prepared to buy in bulk online as the local places are not gonna have much.

So 8lbs will last me for the rest of my life as I have powder but the price even with haz mat is still cheaper than the stores and I only bought one 8 lb. You could offset that even more with more powder or primers. (not Midway though!)

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Still Running Against the Wind

The Olin process was thus.
get a shipment of past date canon powder from the military.
put it into a vat of water and grind it to a slurry.
add some chemicals to neutralize any acids present from degradation.
pump the slurry to other vats where it will be stirred until it forms spheres, largely representing the finished powder.
add retardants to control its burn rate and stir until dry.

this process bypasses production of nitrocellulose and nitroglycerin, and the hazards that come with it.

if this is still the process behind 231 and the rest of the Winchester/ Olin line, why change?
It was a model of safety and efficiency as well as being an immaculate contraption.

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it just needs more voltage

Well the product is still available so can we just let the horse die??

It got closed on another forum,

It is up to General Dynamics. if it wasn't so darn far I would drive up there knock on the front gate and demand answers!

I think their waste stream is killing all the Oysters, that's my rumor.

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Still Running Against the Wind

W231/HP-38 is still impossible to find around these parts. A couple of guys in our shooting league suggested WST for .45 loads so I picked up a pound for working up some test loads. So far it seems to be a good alternative, I just wish it was suitable for .38 Special too.

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"Shall not be infringed"

It is very suitable for 38 Spec loads. Do some research.

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Lost in Penn's Woods

To hell with gold and silver.

Let me know when people are selling it for $100.00 a pound.

Then I'm cashing in.

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Goal Life Member
Traveling Man

Ditto! It's my plinking powder of choice for 38 spl., 45 and 9mm. Check Hodgdon's reload data center on their web site.

Well, W 231 is all I use. Or used to use for the calibers I reload. Evidently it's the most popular powder in the world.

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I have never used W231. I haven't seen any in 3 or 4 years.
I have found Red Dot and 700X , and have used those extensively in cast bullet, target and plinking loads in 9mm , 38 special and 45 acp.
Along with Bullseye those three powders fill the bill nicely.
I hate it when you find something you like and then....it goes away.
Happened to me with Alcan #5. Still miss that powder .
You would think with all the different companies making powder we would be up to our elbows in the stuff.
Last Sunday a trip to Cabela's yielded nothing...the ONLY handgun powder on the shelf was H110....not exactly a cast bullet target load powder. Going to Bass Pro and see what they have...wish me luck!
Gary

I picked up a couple lbs of each a while back as I grab a couple of anything that happens to turn up. I can't decide now if I should open them a work up loads or not. Waiting to see what happens with the rumors.

My 1911s in .38 Super and .45 ACP shoot more accurately with AutoComp than W231 and boy, is it ever clean-burning stuff! I stopped at a gun shop this morning on my way home from shooting the Doug Koenig edition Performance Center 1911 in .38 Super that I got yesterday and the 1911 competitive shooter at the shop couldn't get over how clean the entire gun was after 200 rounds. Of course, he has been using Bullseye...

AutoComp is also readily available.

Ed

Would it be suitable for .38/.357 and 9mm?

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I have had good luck with Autocomp in 9mm and 45acp. Haven't tried it in 38spec yet ,maybe load some next week. I have 2 pounds of it, but I am running low on 231.

Venom,...remember the most important step, they then flatten the spheres out, apparently this helps to get the desired burn rate for 231/HP38 OPB231. 231 is called ball powder but is actually little round flakes after flattening.

Haven't seen 231 in stores/shows lately. Went to Medina Ohio gun show today. Saw 1 container of 231 on a powder supplier shelf,it's now sitting on my shelf.

Cabelas Dundee had 231 yesterday and Hp38 and Titegroup first time in awhile.

Just received my W231 order the other day. I waited 22 months for it but it finally came.

Still waiting on Graf's

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All you gotta do is look.
Powder | Reloading | Natchez Shooters Supplies

Thanks bwxmas, just scored 4lbs. of 231. Ridiculous price by the time you add hazmat and shipping but at least I'll be back in the game.

Thats why I always bite the bullet, and get 10lbs or more to offset the charge. Some can't swing it though.
I bought 20lbs of Clays, and 8lbs of 231 from them last week, plus a few rifle powders so mine was not bad.

Hodgdon HP38 Smokeless Powder 1 Lb by HODGDON , IMR & WINCHESTER

I have read here and other places that 231 and hp38 are the same powder my books list both with different data or will list only one I am new to this and am just trying to understand this thanks Daniel

The reason you see different data is simple lot to lot differences if everything else is identical. However, different guns, different primers, different cases, different bullets, etc., will all give different results.

Take it as gospel that the powders are identical. There is a picture somewhere on these forums showing the same lot number and manufacture date on a can of both WW231 and HP38.

Its my picture

thanks for the reply if my books list 231 data it would be safe to use hp38
thanks Daniel

I just saw about 12 1 lb. cans of HP-38 on my supplier's shelf yesterday. I've always used 231 and still have a bunch of it left and I have no qualms about substituting HP-38 when the time comes. I was told that "the warehouse" has 8 lb. kegs of HP-38, so I'll wait a week for these rather than continue to buy more of the annoying little 1 lb. quantity. Pistol powder is back.

This same place also has three 8 lb. kegs of SR 4756 that have been sitting on the shelf for months. That is a powder that will soon be gone forever. I'd rather have the HP-38 but I'm still thinking about going back to buy the rest of that SR 4756.

I bought (3) 1-pound bottles of HP-38 at the local Sportsman's Warehouse last week. They still have some there. They also had Titegroup. I picked up (3) 1-pound bottle of AutoComp at the Cabela's in Idaho Falls last week too. Maybe things are getting back to normal?

Now if I could just find some Federal 525 round bulk-pack 22LR. That stuff is like looking for a unicorn.

Mike

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NRA Certified Pistol Inst.