How much difference to a load does the primer make?

I was shooting my 629-2 today. I was firing a 240gr LSWC, 7gr of HS6, .44 mag Starline brass, a Remington LP primer, and a firm crimp. I realize this is a .44 Spl loading, but I wanted a light load without adding a cylinder ring to the cleanup.

The round has a soft recoil and is accurate, but there's a lot of smoke, oil and unburned grains left behind. I recall seeing a comment on this forum that a magnum primer worked wonders for HS6.

Thoughts?

Ever wonder why your search never finds anything until after you post the question?

A few comments:
Yes, that is a VERY light load. Well below starting load. Not unusual for such loads to exhibit a lot of dirt and soot. I'd get up to about at least 8.5 grs. of HS-6.
Second, why use any crimp for a light load? The purpose of the crimp is to prevent bullet jump caused by heavy recoil. Decent case neck tension is sufficient to hold the bullet in place. Seat the bullet so that about a fingernail's thickness of the bullet shoulder protrudes from the case. Only apply enough "crimp" to remove the flare or bell left by the expander die. No more. Save the heavy crimp for heavy loads. Your brass will last longer.

Finally, no need to use magnum primers unless called for by your published load data. It won't hurt. But probably not help either.

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USAF, 69-92
Vietnam, 72-73

You could just use magnum primers for everything and reduce the powder load by about 1/2 grain. I would follow this myself except that I have a notion that some powders actually prefer standard or magnum primers. I believe I read this in Speer manuals. If not I read it somewhere. I didn't make it up. Now whether or not it's true........

PS The consequence of powder not liking the primer is erratic ignition of the powder, reducing velocity and accuracy

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"He was kinda funny lookin'"

win primers are for standard and magnum loads.

I was going for 44 Specials, which Hodgdon 2015 starts at 6.5 and ends at 8.0 grains. (This is the only manual I have that lists HS6.). I loaded up some 8.0gr rounds as well, but I didn't like them as much and they left unburned powder too.

The heavy crimp was explained to me as also affording a more complete powder burn before the bullet jumps. Didn't appear to be the case judging from the unburned powder...,

Those who use a lot of HS 6 feel that a Mag primer is useful when using that powder. It will help burn the powder efficiently and not add much if anything to the pressure or recoil. Just work up from a start load. Not a max load.
As with most slow (mag powders) it does not do well at reduced levels.

I know you state you loaded 44 Special but if you look at anything Magnum on Hodgdon data they use a mag primer for all of them.

You also have to adjust your load for the extra volume of the 44 Mag brass when using a 44 Special load. The start load is 6.5 (44 Special) So a start for 44 Mag case adjusted by 10%(for the longer brass) would be just over 7.0 gr. Try a Mag primer and say 7.5 grains. Just my suggestion, use at your discretion.

I called Hodgdon and asked about this and they stated they wanted all the data to be consistent. So even Hp 38 has a mag primer listed for say the 357 Mag.

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Still Running Against the Wind

IME magnum primers and a good roll crimp really help with HS-6 in moderate .357 loads, complete/clean burning with plated bullets.

I'm sure they would help in .44 spl too.

The "more complete powder burn" is a potential SECONDARY benefit of crimping with powder that is hard to ignite and instances of relatively light charges in very large cases, e.g., some cowboy loads in .45 Colt. The people with the data, like Speer, Lyman, Hodgdon, Alliant, etc., know when this is the case and will annotate their load data accordingly. "Go with published data" is the rule of thumb. In recent years most of the publishers have backed off considerably in recommending magnum primers compared to 20 or so years ago. And Winchester no longer has a magnum LPP.

I find it best to use .44 Spl. cases for light loads.

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USAF, 69-92
Vietnam, 72-73

I only load 38/357 as well as 270s but, the thing that strikes me about your original post and then your followup is that you are using magnum cases and special load data. Moxie points out that you should bump it up to 8.5 and you come back with your data that shows a top of 8.0. Again, you are basing this on 44 Special data. If you are looking for a light load for the Mag then use the data for the mag and not the special. You have a 0.125 difference in the case length which will change things. Volume, bullet depth in the case, etc.

I tested 158 gr lead in my 6" 686 with HS-6 a while back with
standard primers, cci500, since that was all I had at the time.

I got good accuracy and average fps with my loads but a few
looked like I was using black powder, with all the white smoke.

However the 158gr XTP with the cci550 primer in 38 and 357
magnum did not have any more smoke than a normal load but
I don't know if it was because of the copper jacket.
I have not shot any lead loads with the mag primers yet.

I load 10.0 grains of SR4756 under a 240-grain SWC in my .44 Magnum target loads and get good results - clean burn and good accuracy - with either CCI 500 or Remington 7-1/2 standard large pistol primers.

Although not applicable to this discussion, I recently tried Federal large rifle magnum match primers in my 6.5-284 Norma rifle loads and noticed a reduction in velocity deviation that I credit with improving the rifle's accuracy. Muzzle velocity was all but unchanged. FWIW...

Ed

Hodgdon seems to skirt the question by using Winchester primers.

W231 was cleaner and considerably less smoky at this level, but they weren't as accurate, grouping about 2" above the point of aim at 10 yards.

(This is my second attempt to download .44's, but the difficulty I have is that my pistols are prisoners of the range. So unless a bear gets a hold of a key card to the range door, I don't need any fire breathers.)

9 grains of Unique makes a sweet shooter for my 629-1. CCI LPPs

Another approach to special loads in the magnum brass, suggested by "Mick" McPherson,
is to seat the bullet deeper than normal to take up some of the unused space.
He claims this helps with accuracy as well as burning the powder.
I have not played with this much as I shoot specials in Specials and magnums not much at all any more.
If you want a cleaner burn though I would switch to a different powder.
Seating bullets deeper RAISES THE PRESSURE so start low.
Running to special velocities in a magnum case and gun should not be a problem in any event.
My target load in a magnum case is 7.5 grains of Universal (or Unique) under a 240 cast bullet.
In a special case I load 6.5 or 7 grains.
The latter is pretty much a top end load for the Special.
I use the CCI 300 in target loads, the WLP in magnums.

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NEMO
"Everything 44"

Mt 357 Magnum loads with 2400 repeatedly print smaller groups with standard primers, even though most reloading literature recommends a magnum primer.

I use match rifle primers for all reloading, pistol and rifle, got a good deal on Federal primers years ago, and have enough forever........

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ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

Having weathered the ''Great Primer Shortage'' several times over the past several years l resorted to anything that fit a primer pocket at times.. esp 2008-09 when small primers were non-existant l found myself out of small pistol but lots of small rifle to spare..l decided to try some small rifle in 38 special cases..l was pleasantly surprised they ignited 3gr of Bullseye quite well and l could not detect any change in my favorite wadcutter load accuracy..

l will NOT however sub a small pistol primer for rifle In my favorite 222Rem prairie dog load

Us large primer folks don't have that luxury.
I have drilled out some Starline 445 cases that are made for pistol primers and I think the rifle primers work better in that somewhat large (for a revolver) case.
I get 50+ fps more from the rifle primers so they are obviously hotter.
Both the Dan Wesson and the Encore are designed to set off rifle primers so I have not had any problem with that.
Since this round also is sometimes pushed to 45kPSI, I feel better using the tougher primer.
We started out with converted rifle brass when the 445 was new so those loads used the rifle primers and I just stuck with them.
Why they made the small primers compatible and the large ones not has always baffled me.
I am sure there is a good reason, I just have never heard it.
Maybe they need the extra room for compound to set off the really big cartridges like the 3" NE and other formerly BP rounds.

Attached Images

445Pockets2.jpg (164.7 KB, 17 views)

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NEMO
"Everything 44"

first disclaimer...I don't use 296 or 2400 in my .44 mag(revolver or rifle) and I don't shoot at temperatures below 10 degrees farinheit) just never needed absolutely maximum power. But using Green Dot, AA#9 and AA#7 and AA#5 and SR 4756(lime green), HP38/231 and Autocomp. I use WLP and FED LP, never used a magnum primer. Even with large charges of slow burning AA#9, just never needed magnum primers. Keep in mind with AA#7/9 I'm running 1500 fps out of my Henry .44 (with a lead bullet of course

I accidentally bought some large magnum pistol primers for my light 45 colt loads... I've found they work better for a more complete powder burn. Accuracy is better than I can shoot.

Remington LP primers are like the Winchester LP primers, they are rated for both.
Remington and Winchester only make one primer for LP.

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John