45LC Recommendations For Short barrel

J

JohnSmallTX

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Recently I got a short barreled (2 1/2“) derringer in 45LC.

I’ve reloaded for a variety of pistols, but new to the 45LC.

I’ve done considerable research (online and reloading manuals), but the vast majority of the references are for longer barreled Colt SAAs and Unique powder.

Since I’m dealing with a much shorter barrel I’m strongly considering a faster burning powder (ie, Red Dot, W231, etc.).

Would like to develop two loads – plinking and carry (but not to hot).

I have a variety of lead bullets 185 grain up to 260 grain.

Contacting the gun’s manufacturer probably won’t be fruitful as they make disparaging remarks (the usual legalistic CYA) about reloads in the Owner’s Manual.

Does anyone have experience with fast powder / short barrel 45LC loads? OR recommendations to just stick with Unique.

Many Thanks for any inputs.
 
You shoot that little cannon yet? An ugly gun to shoot with full power loads. I have shot a lot of RedDot in 45colt CAS loads. 5gr under a 200gr bullet is a good plinker.good luck with this project.
 
fredj338 said:
You shoot that little cannon yet? An ugly gun to shoot with full power loads. I have shot a lot of RedDot in 45colt CAS loads. 5gr under a 200gr bullet is a good plinker.good luck with this project.
Click to expand...

They make those in 44 Mag also, Just can not imagine shooting one!:eek::D
 
My standard load for SASS shooting works well in a 3" SAA also. 200 cast RNFP over 6.7 of WW231/HP38, WLP primer, any brand of brass. 4.4 gr CLAYS my be a good load also (same volume as the other load) and CLAYS isn't position sensitive.

Load up 4 or 6 and see what your group looks like, If you are lucky changing velocity ( up or down 2/10 grain) will tighten it up for you. heavier or lighter bullets give changes also.

After you get a working load, you may want a few shot shells. I use 6.7 of 231 in a sized and primed case, put a card of cardboard or cork over powder fill case with #8 shot to 1/8" below case mouth. Put another card over shot. Seal the case, I use gutter seam sealer, and wipe flush. Let cure for 2 or 3 weeks (or you get a gummy build up in the barrels). I use this formula in a longer case that holds 1/2 ounce of shot, The pattern from 5.5" barrel is 12" at 12 feet at has totally destroyed snakes on the trail. Velocity is around 750 to 800 fps. Just food for thought.

Ivan
 
You might take a look at Trail Boss. Fills the case but not hot loads.
 
Haven't shot it yet.

However, I've shot SAAs with factory 45LCs and know this guy will be a real hand full.

I'm starting out with some light plinking loads - 185 gr LSWC / 4.6 - 5.0 Red Dot and working my way up from there.

Can't imagine I'll get past mid-range loads before I reach my pain threshold.

Just hoping I don't have to shot this guy to many times.

Yes, it will be a real hand full.
 
My vote goes for trailboss if you can find any. Start low and work your way up.
 
7g W231 under a 255g cast should work.

Maybe 6.5g if that's a bit stout.

Derringers are a different proposition, not for long range, not for target.
 
It will always be impossible (with current technologies and available components) to achieve the performance potential of any cartridge in a 2.5" barrel. Attempts to boost performance will yield far more in recoil, muzzle flash, and muzzle blast than they will in velocity or energy.

My approach to the problem would be to concentrate on the lighter bullets (200 grains and under) and faster burning powders with moderate charges. Bullseye would probably be a good choice, as would Trail Boss or W231. Lead bullets will accelerate more quickly than jacketed, so are likely to achieve better performance out of the short barrel without boosting powder charges to a level that could be difficult to shoot controllably.
 
For your SD load, in that light gun, I'd suggest seating the ogive of a quality 185gr JHP ACP bullet to the 45 Colt's case mouth, & use a taper crimp die to hold it in place. (I've never had one jump crimp when seated/crimped like this). The lighter bullets will give you less recoil & to can up the speed to whatever you can "handle".

Since the bullet is deep seated you'll need a little less powder than listed. Sierra #5 has data for this bullet in a 45 Colt at standard SAAMI pressure level using 700X, PB, Unique & 4756.

.
 
I have never tested 45 Colt in a derringer, but I have in a Governor, which has a 2.75" barrel. In the Governor, Power Pistol stood out as a powder that performed well in the shorter barrel. The same powder also did well in my 38 Special snubby. I would give PP a try.

I did get Unique to perform somewhat well, but I had to use magnum primers to get good ignition. So if you are using Unique, use magnum primers in the short barrel.

Of course Bullseye should perform well, but in my testing, could not match the velocities of PP or Unique when using published loading data.

Mike
 
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I load 6.8 231 for my sons Judge 3". Lite load but lots of unburned powder if I go higher with the short bbl. 7.2 for my Vaquero. still lite.
I'm going to try bullseye for his.
 
Well , simply by having this combination , you have defaacto made pre-existing choices. You will be reliaing upon a non-expanding bullet of large diameter. Also by the inherent design , what would be considered short range for normal handgun , will now be very long range.

Load a 200gr or less lead bullet . Start light , and controlability ( aka lesser amount of pain) will be your goal.

Keeping in mind that the 2.5 inch bbl includes the chamber , that's an effective bbl of a bit over an inch.

Unless you enjoy loading shot loads as a seperate hobby , the CCI shotshells work great for me from a 3.5in Vaquero , and a box will last a long time with 2 test rounds , and the rest reserved for actual snake combat.
 
Ok, did some googling meanwhile. Ballistic by the inch w has some numbers on either side. With actual 3.5 derringer , low 600 w/ std pressure. Extrapolating the test bbl results should be mid 500s.

Not. Now , if you are refering to a 3in bbl , that is chambered to taake 2.5in .410 shells , you also have the long freebore to deal with. A few years ago I read an article that reported .45LC vels of just under to just over 500fps with that setup. Of course I'm not voluenteering to stand in front of a 255gr rnfp @ 5 00fps.

If you are set on a Derringer , the way to achieve aany modicum of velocity , is to use a short ctg , so as to have some degree of expansion ratio. In the .45 bore size thaat would be .45acp.

What's better , a big bullet at velocity of warm spit, or medium dia bullet at ( spit x 1.5 ) ? That's an eternal campfire and adult beverage debate. And will come down more to personal philosophy than anything provable one way or the other.
 
2013-02-08_11-58-36_816.jpg


My .45 Colt (only, it's not a .410 bore) Bond Arms 3" can get about 850 fps with a 200-gr hardcast LSWC over 13.0 gr of HS-6 (mag prmr), and about 870 fps with the 225-gr Hornady FTX, over 8.4 gr. of Green Dot. I believe these are both max loadings for my gun. I can't vouch for their safety in any other gun. They should be approached only with due caution by experienced handloaders.

Or you could buy some Cowboy Special brass and go with .45 ACP load data . . .

IMG_20131103_125841_702.jpg


I ran only a couple 225-gr FTX bullets over Fed mag primers with 9.3 gr HS-6 - this is a warm .45 ACP loading for 230-grainers, and those FTX things sit low in the case. Anyway, an average of 864 fps. Amusingly, this is very close to the velocities I got with the .45 Colt brass and the Green Dot loading, so I don't see any reason to go with the CS version.

I mostly use my .45 ACP barrel set on the thing, though. Uniformly better performance with warm loads - but you've got more rifled barrel in there due to the shorter round. Higher pressures, too.
 
Many Thanks for all the inputs / suggestions.

http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa352/JohnSmallTX/Bond/Bond.jpg

My blaster is a Bond too, but a “MINI” model with the shorter barrel.

I’ve inventoried my bullets and have 185gr & 200gr LSWC, 225gr L truncated, 230gr LRN.

For powder I’ve got W231, Red & Green Dot, Bullseye, WST, and Unique.

I’ll hit the manuals again and develop some mid-range & starter 10% reduced loads with this mix of bullets / powders.

After a trip to the range I’ll post results & observations.
 
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