Gentlemen,

I've decided to get into the reloading game. I've been conducting research for the past month including pricing equipment and components, reviewing load data, and building a shopping list. I've also done a lot of reading on various reloading forums. I would like to share with you my needs and shopping list and hope that the experienced people can give me a sanity check.

Here are the parameters:

1. Not going for high volume. I'm not a "gamer" or a benchrest type competitor. I like to shoot some obscure stuff and like the idea of tailoring my loads to specific needs.

2. Not going for cost savings. I quickly realized that given the high cost of entry, it is going to take a long time to see any cost savings. That is ok. I've decided to buy nice stuff that I hope will last.

3. I shoot a lot of 9mm, 5.56, and 7.62X39. I don't plan on reloading for any of them. I'll save the brass, but right now loaded ammo is cheap enough that I'm not going to put in the time for blasting fodder. Can get into that game latter as the need arises or time increases.

4. I do not have the time nor the desire to make this hobby a full time job. I will not be loading thousands of rounds a month, turning case necks, using micrometer to gauge every case, and I won't be trying 10 different powders at 10 different weights.

5. Here is what I would like to load:

a. .44 Special, target level loads to feed vintage guns like a triple-lock.

b. .44 Magnum, midlevel loads for fun at the range, but with some pop; 240 grains at 11-1200 fps.

c. .38 Special and .45 acp target loads. .45 loads will both be for autos and revolvers.

d. .223 target loads will primarily be used in a bolt but could be used in an AR.

e. .308 and .30-06 will be used in a M-1A and M1 Garand. 30-06 for use in a Springfield 03-A4 sniper rifle.

f. .348 Winchester and .45-70 Gov't to feed my Winchesters.

g. Subsonic .300 Blackout for use with a suppressor in a SBR AR.

h. At some point would like to do small runs of .300 H&H, .300 Weatherby, 6.5X55, 7x57, 30-40 Krag.

So, given those parameters, I set to work on equipment research. Here is what I have determined for my full set up.

- Forster Co-Ax press (progressive is not for me)
- Forster Original Case Trimmer (I like that this will work with .348 Win and .45-70)
- Forster chamfer and deburing tool
- Redding powder scale, measure, and trickler
- RCBS Ultrasonic
- Caldwell Chronograph
- Redding Carbide Dies for pistol
- RCBS AR series Dies for .223, .308, .30-06
- Undecided on Dies for .348 Win and .45-70
- Imperial wax
- Lee universal Deprime die (then into the ultrasonic)
- Missouri Bullet Company Hi-Tek for .38, .44, .45, .300 BLK, .45-70.
- Lyman and Hornady Manual
- Already have a nice sturdy bench in a basement room

So, let me know if you have any suggestions on my equipment choices or if I'm missing something. Please no responses that say "start with a Lee loader" or "get a Dillion super machine" or "find a old Hollywood press at an estate sale."

Between the cost of all of this junk, plus the primers and the powder, perhaps this whole reloading idea is a bad idea. Am I crazy here?

Edit to add: I haven't purchased anything yet, except for some powder and primers. I have a few days left on my "birthday" price break at Midway, so feel free to make suggested changes!

Not crazy. You will not only save money (though not a ton of money) but you will get EXACTLY what you want rather than simply what is available. In addition many people (including me) find reloading to be relaxing or even therapeutic. You will amortize the expense in a year or two, maybe less. Go for it.

Looks like you have done your homework and put together a package very well suited for some selective quality loading. You will be very pleased with a Forster CoAx press and its unique floating shell holder and the minimal runout on loaded cartridges. I could kick myself for letting mine go as it even out performed my Hollywood Seniors on bottleneck brass. Everything else is good quality proven tools.

Good luck

Let me just add the Forster trimmer with accessories is one fine set up and performs as well on every level as my older Wilson trimmer.

You don't want to prime on the Co-Ax press.
Would suggest the RCBS hand primer.
Co-Ax is GREAT press.

You do need to read up on the best type of powders to use for the M1 rifle. Some can damage the recoil rod from too high of pressures.
There are Ball and stick powders that were made for this rifle and I have found that IMR 4895 with a starting load of 46 grains with the M2 Ball or a 150gr FMJ bullet makes for a nice low recoil target load. This load will also work in the 1903 bolt action rifle and start out around 2,500 fps.
Milt. spec's are around 2,805 MV at 49,000 CUP for war time ammo.

IMR-3031 to IMR-4064 work in the M1 & M14 in the fast to slowest powders.
Some say IMR-4320 is safe but I like a little extra safety on pressures.
2550 fps with a 168gr in the M14 is a guide........... sure you can load faster but this load will also be safe in 90 degree temperatures !! Same goes for the old M1 rifle. Treat it nice and you will not need a lot of parts or trips to a gunsmith.
Keep it clean and check the gas port every now and then and you should be fine.

Getting into reloading is a good idea, but don't over think it and make it so complicated that you can't see the forest for the trees.

Keep it simple at first, then move on to more detailed reloading as you become comfortable.

Looking at the cartridge list .... you should also think about casting and coating equipment too.

44, I found that after going to coatings, the Lee 214 SWC finally redeemed itself and really found a place. a 240 might be a classic, but I tend to favor lighter pills at higher speeds.
45 auto, it has a ravenous appetite like any other auto but nearly requires a second mortgage to keep fed without casting.
45-70 ... Mine has seen about 10 factory rounds ... the rest has been all cast handloads like God intended.

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it just needs more voltage

Thanks for the feedback guys. I have thought about priming on the co-ax press. It seems like a very slow, but precise method. Watched a great video demonstration on YouTube. I may have to add a hand primer to the list.

I'm tracking that m1-a and m1 garand require specific loads. I already orded some IMR 4064. Will continue to research before I pull the handle.

I purchased some Winchester primers and various powder (Ramshot zip, universal clays, aa 5744, and the 4064. I know I will need more to cover everything I want to do, but it is a start. I considered VV powder, but did not like that there was not as much data out there as with other powders.

I'm not ready to jump into casting yet. I have spent a lot of time on the cast "boolit" forum the past month though.

I am going to go against the grain.
What you have is fine, but In my opinion, a Redding T7 would be far more beneficial to a new reloader. Much more versatile
Just an opinion.

Look at it this way, you have chosen some good equipment to start with and if for some reason, you decide that you no longer want to pursue reloading, it will be really easy to sell the stuff in the S&W classifieds for 75-80% of what you paid.

Save the boxes and papers. For some reason, we love boxes and papers.

Looks like a good selection. You will want to get something to check case lengths, an inexpensive digital caliper will do fine. Also loading blocks are handy and don't have to cost much. Those hard plastic trays that come with some brands of 45 acp work great in a pinch and will hold most rimless rifle cases except for the magnums.
I'll also second the RCBS hand primer tool.

John

OP: Best and most disciplined outline of wants and needs plus the connecting logic I've seen. I suspect you will do quite well as a reloader

Re your list . . . I may have found some different landing points than you did, but your choices are solid.

Normally I'd advise against Ultrasonic cleaning . . . batch sizes are small, you have to dry the brass, the additives add expense, you need to "be there" reasonably soon after the batch is complete. However, it may work well for your multi-caliber small batch reloading and it does avoid the dust from dry tumbling. I dry tumble outdoors, dumping at least one caliber of brass in when returning from the range, and relying on a timer to turn it off. If I don't come back for a week, the brass remains unharmed. OTOH, if you ultimately find ultrasonic brass cleaning unsatisfactory, you will probably find the device useful for other things.

If you decide to hand prime, I'd suggest the RCBS Universal Hand Primer. It does not use any shellholders, which means yours can stay with the many die sets you will have. Ergonomically the Hornady was marginally better for me, and the Lee trays turned primers a bit faster. But unlike those the RCBS-U has an excellent safety slide to separate primer supply from the primer being seated, and has never flipped a primer upside down after the cover was in place.

My hands get more sensitive each year, so I have switched to the RCBS Bench primer and a Hornady 1911 primer tube filler and find my arthritic hands appreciating the change.

A bit on chronos. Nothing wrong with your brand choice, but optical chronos have pros and cons. More weight to carry, the range must be cold for you to set up 10 yards down range, the range must be hot to check rifle alignment, the weather and lighting must cooperate, and you and/or a friend will ultimately shoot the chrono at least once . When shooting from a bench, they often need to be re-adjusted if you set up many targets (sometimes 100 yards) down range.

The MagnetoSpeed magnetic chrono needs to be attached to the barrel or rail of your firearms. When attached to the barrel it will most often change your POI, but there is no evidence it affects group size. It's small, no tripod, sets up when the range is hot, does not need light or specific weather of any kind, and is damn difficult to shoot If you haven't looked at them, might be worthwhile.

(I have a Labradar on order. It might be the best chrono form, but I can't yet comment on whether it is practical or worth the expense.)

Having reloaded many thousands of rounds for the M1 Garand and M1A for many years in NRA High Power matches, the earlier post of specific burn rate powders is sage advice, IMR 4895 is recommended because it works SO well and was originally designed for those cartridges.

There are other powders....but the standard for me and many others is still 4895.

I might also strongly recommend the use of a case gauge( Wilson, Dillon etc) for each caliber.

They are invaluable in setting up your dies... and pay a lot of attention to the case length and use dies that size the casing to fit the chamber properly while setting the shoulder back to the correct spot for head spacing. This is a VERY important element

I have used RCBS ( not small base), and now use Dillons and Redding successfully.

Welcome to the wacky world of reloading!!!!

Randy

More great comments. Thanks guys.

I permanently borrowed a Brown and Sharpe dial caliper from my father. Will be using that one for now. I did consider a Redding press instead of the Forster. As you can see, the majority of the other stuff on my list is Redding. I like their reputation for quality and superior design. I also listened to a podcast interview with their VP, and I was impressed with their business practices.

My thought process was that with the Co-Ax, die changes are just as fast as a turret, and I don't have to buy extra turret heads or shell holders. In fairness, to load .348 Win and .45-70 in the Co-Ax, I will need to buy the extra "LS" shell holder plate.

BWXMAS, if you have any more detail you want to add on the T7 please fire away. I have not made my final decision yet...my birthday price break at Midway is good for a few more days.

As a happy Co-Ax owner I would agree with most of your choices, I might differ on a few but thats just personal choice. At first I thought you weren't going for perfection on every round but using a powder trickler and a chronograph makes me think otherwise. If you're just going to the range for some fun shooting don't know that you need those. Could have misunderstood your intent. As someone else mentioned you need a set of calipers, guessing you knew that, just forgot to list it. My only addition would be the Lee reloading manual, it has a lot more info than the ones you mentioned. Also, if you have a drill press loading blocks are easy to make your self. Have fun.

SANITY CHECK? HERE????

Glad to see you have done your research,

A few tips, Baby steps, you have a lot of calibers and equipment listed. start with easy straight wall cases like 45 ACP or the 44 Mag, 44 Special

Get the hang of doing one easy caliber before going nuts and buying everything,

I would also buy the Speer manual and the LYMAN CAST BULLET if shooting lead bullets.
The LEE manual has data that was complied years OK from other sources they never tested anything.

There is also lots of different powders and primers you will need for those calibers.

You need a caliper, loading blocks, as you are single stage loading.

Why the Caldwell Chrono? It has not been out very long,(does not seem to fit with your higher end list)

The Comp Electronics is a great unit , no it does not have a read out separate from the unit but it can be seen 10 feet away.

You can get a extra that hooks up to a laptop.It works 100% in intense Sunlight, If you do kill it, they will fix/replace for 1/2 price.

Competition Electronics ProChrono Digital Chronograph

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Still Running Against the Wind

Great feedback. I think the RCBS primer is the one. Some mitigating information on chronos. I have the privilege of living in Utah. Open desert shooting is only 45 minutes away, so some of the downside in set up isn't a worry. I looked at the magnetospeed. Sure seems like a neat piece of gear. I was honestly just trying to do the chrono on the cheap. Do you ever use the magnetospeed at indoor ranges?

JAG22, thanks for the information. As far as the chrono, I do feel the need to verify what I'm doing with data. Seem like a cheap investment for peace of mind.

Based on your handle, you and me are in the same business. Certainly you can appreciate my reluctance at taking things on faith.

I shot over the MagnetoSpeed last week it was so much easier to use then my Pro Chrono but unless you get the V3 it takes a optional cable to get the data to a cell phone app then mail it to your PC. The V3 model has a SD Card plus you can get a mount to use on a pistol that has a lower pic rail. Don

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USN Retired/VN VET
M&P X5

Here goes,
Everything you stated makes me believe you want to load good accurate ammo. That is fine, But for a new reloader, I personally do not like the Coax. I work on feel, and have used a standard pull from my press for 40 yrs, and I am not changing now.
Anytime some recommends hand priming, that's a red flag for me. If you don't have enough feel with your hands, with a standard press, than somethings wrong. It is an unneeded step, one in which I won't spend the time. I can guarantee there are few, if anybody on this forum more anal than me, at accurate loading.
If I thought the Coax was better, I would have it.
I do not think the Coax would be any more accurate than what I build on my T7. If it is, in your case it would be minimal.
I do not change heads. I have 7 holes, which i can set up 2 complete calibers, while only changing a shellholder. I can also choose to use one hole as a powder dispenser if I choose. I use the lock rings on these dies. All the dies that I use for the T7 are set up for the T7.
If I need to change calibers, I tighten the rings, just unscrew the dies, and screw the new ones in(already set up), change the shellholder, and rip. Takes a minute maybe. They only need to be set once, lock the rings, and bingo, done. Similar to what a lock, and load would be without the bushings. I can decap, prime, expand,seat, and crimp, with just the movement of the head, with exacting tolerance. I can go as slow, or as fast as I want.
Many will disagree, and I have never had a forster that did not do what is was supposed to, But I looked into the Coax 20yrs ago, I did not like it then, and I still don't. It will not load more accurate ammo than Redding.
It will always come down to the guy setting it up.

The t7 is 86 lbs delivered, if that tells you how stout it is.
I can afford any press I want, but I use the Hornady, and Dillon for progressive, but I use the T7 for my most accurate rifle loads.
I shoot to 500yds, and have had no problems with accuracy.

Sorry for the long version, but you have a great list, and it will work fine, but for a NEW reloader, I think the T7 would be a far better deal.

I have a optional device for my Pro Chrono that transmits to my cell phone to their free app and I set the cell phone on the bench and can see the reading for every shot plus control the chrono. I use mine at a indoor range and have a roller stand I made I push the chrono out with as the range is always hot. It only needs to go out 15 foot max. You will have to get the IR lighting addon as it does not work well with indoor lighting. Don

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USN Retired/VN VET
M&P X5

No need to apologize. On the contrary, this is exactly the kind of information I hoped my post would generate. Thank you for taking the time to post. I'll do some more reading on a T7.

Thanks also for everyone else posting. Great info on chronographs. I honestly have not done my research on them, as was just hoping a cheap one would work as I did not anticipate using it too much.

The advantage of the T7 or any turret press is the fact that you do not have to set up each die every time. You can leave them in the turret head and just swap them out, Plus you are not handling each piece of brass 3 or 4 times. If I had the $$ I would get the T7 over the Co Ax just for that reason, it is cast and built like a tank, It is not auto index so you have to turn it each time, I also would rather have a powder measure adapter so you can drop the powder while on the press.

It is a lot different loading a few rifle rounds for precision work compared to cranking out a few hundred pistol rounds for range shooting, So you need to consider what type of shooting/ammo you need the most of.

That said the turrets for the T7 are rather expensive but you can usually have 2 calibers in one head.

Click here for reviews/videos of most good presses.

Redding T-7 Loading 357 Magnum (HD) « Ultimate Reloader Reloading Blog

The chronograph I linked to is a proven unit and not expensive, Look at the purchases and reviews.

I returned two Chrony brands as they will not tolerate bright Sun and light bounce from the sand. The gave errors and bizarre numbers.

Competition Electronics - The Winning Difference!

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Still Running Against the Wind

As someone who has loaded since 1980 (kind of a latecomer compared to some on here...) I would like to suggest you at least evaluate RCBS. I know you say you are not going to go to progressive loading, but as you get more experienced with your loading and gain more confidence, I think you may start to consider a progressive. IF you do, the RCBS Piggyback is a great idea, at least to me. It is progressive and auto-indexes, and although it has its idiosyncracies (they all do...), once you learn it, you are good to go.

I like it because if I want to just size rifle brass or load for my 400 H&H, the Piggyback comes off the Rockchucker and I am ready to go single stage. Also, the Piggyback uses the Uniflo powder dispensing unit, which you will have to have one of anyway.

Single stage is how I started out, and I applaud you making that decision. But take a look at RCBS and at least take a look at the Piggyback. I really like mine, and I don't think you can beat RCBS for customer service. I don't think I have ever paid a dime for a single replacement item from them, even when the screw-up was of my own making and I broke the part!

Man I'd could chat with you on reloading equipment for hours. Hope you checked out my post: So you're thinking about getting into reloading...

Can't help with the sanity check as I am short on sanity myself.

Good suggestions, but don't kid yourself, you'll be hooked on a new hobby before you know it--even if it's only cranking out one round at a time!

Novalty, I did check out your post. I used it as a jumping off point in my research. I certainly appreciate it.

As said above, there is no reason to buy different heads for a T7.
By the time you change out a head, I would already be reloading.
The powder die can stay in. All you have to do is tighten the lockring, and spin it out, while putting in the other die, that is already indexed to the T7.
I can change 2 calibers in less than a minute. If someone needs to change heads, that would be a waste of time, and money.
My dies are not in order, but here you can see the powder die can be setup to work manually, or I can use a powder plug.
You can screw in any powder dispenser you want.
I unscrew the die, like the one you see, and the ring stays put, when I put the new caliber in, it is already setup to go when I put it back in, it is indexed already.

I still think the RCBS Rock Chucker Kit is the best starter set up out there. Why they now give a Nosler manual rather than RCBS I have no idea??

It has all good stuff, everything you need and NO JUNK. Add dies, primers and powder,

Forever Warranty and great service.

Who ever has the best price.

RCBS® Rock Chucker Supreme Master Reloading Kit : Cabela's

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Still Running Against the Wind

I just looked over your list of equipment. I have used most of the brands you have listed, if not that particular piece of equipment. Every brand you have listed is top tier and a good place to start. Remember, Reloading equipment is sort of like underwear. What fits and works for you may not work for me. After 50+ years of reloading, I find that I am still using most of the same stuff I started with. Changed to something else on occasion but it didn't always "fit" so I went back. I also agree about the need for a separate priming tool. Also, don't be afraid to seek assistance when you have questions about a process (but then again you know that because you are asking here!). Have fun with it and it will become another enjoyable hobby for many years to come!

Hello Shawn,

Tried to read down through what requirements you have and will tackle them in order. For getting started 45acp is one of the easiest rounds to start on, you are going to save the most money over factory with the 44's and 45 and rifle rounds.

The Forster Co-ax is a great press, the only downside I ever saw about it (besides the priming system and price), was the long handle stroke for small handgun calibers. For an alternative I would suggest the RCBS Summit Press for about half the price of the Co-ax, and then get a RCBS Automatic Bench primer, much easier on the hands fast, and gives you a great feel for seating the primer. You can add the Hornady Lock-n-load kit for faster die swaps if you desire. Only downside difference I see is that you would still need shell-holders.

I see the Redding T7 has been recommended, while it is a heavy press, it does not weigh 86lbs. Think it comes in around 30lbs--so it is still a heavy chunk of iron. The press is really well made, strong smooth stroke. You can even add a case-activated powder measure (strongly suggest RCBS Uniflow with the Hornady Case Activation kit). The only downsides that I noted, while you can add 3 pistol calibers to the tool head--I found I could not fully turn the turret all the way around as the case-activation kit would not clear the rear support of the turret. The turrets do not take the Hornady Lock-n-load quick change bushings, and the turret heads are very expensive--which you would need a couple to cover all your calibers or just change the dies.



I've heard a lot of good feedback on the Forster Case Trimmer. My experience has only been buying and selling used ones. My trimmer is a L.E. Wilson and I really like the trimmer, accurate, repeatable results, and nice square cuts.

Any chamfer/deburring tool will work. Have a Redding that works well, but can't say it is any better than the Wilson made RCBS one I have.

For a powder scale I had a Redding #2, and found the base to be very tipsy, plus the adjust leveling screw was under the beam. Loved my RCBS 5-0-5, and would highly recommend. If you are looking to save some money you can check eBay for Ohaus scales, as they make them for RCBS and they typically go for a little less money. I currently use a RCBS 10-10, and it is top-notch.

For powder measures, I would highly suggest the RCBS Uniflow as I found it extremely accurate for handgun rounds. If you are considering one, make sure you get the combo kit with both the large and small metering drums (rifle & pistol.)

For a trickler, I like my Redding--as it is a nice heavy stable unit--but any will do the trick.

Don't have any experience with ultrasonic cleaners, guess they work. I have had good luck with a Lyman Pro1200, and put tons of brass through it with cheap media.

I would postpone getting a Chronograph. Suspect you will be using starting loads and proceeding with caution. If the speed at which you are putting lead down range really concerns you--you can always get one later.

Redding dies are nice, but for handgun I don't think you are going to gain anything over any of the other manufacturers. I've always had good luck with RCBS, and I know a lot swear by Lee (or at the lock rings ) For rifle dies, a lot of people like the added alignment sleeve of Redding, Forster, Hornady. Again, I don't think you can really go wrong here.

Imperial Sizing wax-without hesitation YES. Works great for rifle, and they are not lying when they say a little goes a long ways.

A lot of people love the universal depriming die, probably a good choice if you are going to deprime before cleaning. The die sets include a deprimer, and I deprime after I clean my brass--so I didn't see the need to buy another die.

Missouri Bullet Co. is a great vendor, and I am sure you will be happy with their products.

Lyman and Hornady both offer nice reloading manuals. Won't hurt to own both and more.

When you starting getting your equipment, sometime it helps to use C-clamps and mock up where you think you would like everything before you starting drilling and mounting.

So what is wrong with a Lee turret press, it is solid, well build.

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Carpriver.

I have to agree on avoiding the sonic cleaner. The traditional vibratory tumbler works great for 99.9% of most reloaders. I tried the ultrasonic cleaner and it wasn't worth the extra work and didn't clean as well as tumbling. I will admit I am part of the .1% that for my own wacky reason have to have super shiny brass and went stainless pins. Better results than ultrasonic and only a few more steps that dry tumbling.

You are definitely not crazy:

Some ammo is cheap now. What happens if it gets scarce and goes through the roof again? Also, TARGET ammo is pretty cheap right now, but you want something above that be ready to drop some coin, ESPECIALLY for rifle bullets/cartridges Be prepared for the worst.

I don't shoot quantities either but I like to shoot mouse poots to lion's roars and everything in between. Don't be a slave to just what you can buy from manufacturers.

Most people don't save money by reloading, but get to shoot a lot more than they would buying commercial stuff. I save money because I'm a real cheapskate and don't have to buy every new reloading toy that comes along so it is very economical to me.

You sound like you are approaching this very sensibly and probably won't get flamed like others do here when they announce that they bought a press and dies and are going to start reloading tomorrow.

I need to ponder your plan for a while and see what I can add, but I did want to vouch for your sanity and encourage you to join the club.

PS. Okay, you don't have to chrono right off the bat and tumbling is something you can catch up on, too. If you've got the dough, though, go for it.

A turret is not a whole lot more complex than a single stage. I use a single stage, but it would be nice to have a turret but I have plenty of time to change and adjust dies.

You will need a good caliper. Dial or digital. Do they still make verniers? Oh, I hope not, unless you are just a purist.

Not full time? I measure my output in hundreds, not thousands. If I don't feel like reloading, I don't. If I do, then..... I load for .38/.359, 9mm and 30-06. I may go with more calibers later but now I'm keeping it stupidly simple.

Don't forget shellholders.

I use a hand primer separate from my press.

You'll need some lube and a pad for bottleneck jobs and it doesn't hurt to squirt a little on straight cartridges.

I use two loading trays. One on the left for empties and one on the right for charged ones.

An RCBS bullet puller will come in handy. You can get the collet type instead, but I just try not to make mistakes.

However you do it, record your data. Notebook, computer. If you shoot the same load all the time you don't need to do this, but when you vary loads, you want to know what you've tried before.

Read those manuals. There are differences in the way straight walled rimmed cases, rimless cases and bottleneck cases are handled and there are some safety issues you GOTTA know before you do anything.

Start looking for powders now. Pistol powders have been hard to come by. Fortunately they all do nearly the same thing. That's go boom at a fast, medium or slow rate.

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"He was kinda funny lookin'"

I'm with Novalty on the Wilson trimmer. I wouldn't want anything else.

Good luck with jumping in. Handloading is a great hobby and will make your shooting even more fun. You'll enjoy it!

I think you need to define "a lot of 9m. & 223". While the coax is a great press, you'll quickly tire of pulling the handle 3000-4000 times to get 1000rds of ammo. Any single stage press is gonna be slow for producing more than a couple 100rds a week.
It doesn't seem like $$ is a huge issue, so I would go ahead, start with the ciao, then look into a progressive like the 550. Your handgun & even 223 will be just as accurate but you will be able to spend less time reloading.
Btw, only reloaders that don't save $$ reloading are those buying in small quantity. How anyone can think 50% of factory cost at a min is not a lot, well you just aren't shooting enough. With a serious progressive setup, call it $1000, that is what, 2500rds of factory 223 or 3000rds of 9mm? Most serious shooters will do twice that in a year, paying for your gear in one year. At current prices, I am. Loading 223 for 16-17c each. Using plated bullets, 9mm For 12c each. When you get into rounds like 44sp, 348, 45-70, you can save 60-70% of factory. Even if you only shoot the oddball rds 100rds a year, you'll save quite a bit of $$.

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NRA Cert. Inst. IDPA CSO

A big help is the Sinclair International catalog and/or web site. Their staff is also very helpful in explaining the differences in similar products for accurate shooting.

If you go with the Co-Ax press you can get the shell holder adapter. The shell holders are an added expense, however they allow a few tricks. Redding makes a set of holders (all in one bolt face) that allow shoulder set back and head space adjustment.

I have bought predominantly RCBS dies when new, and any brand but Lee used (and do have Lee dies also). But if buying everything from scratch I would try to stick to RCBS and Redding. Bonanza/Forester dies of any age were of the highest quality also! With the exception of the specialty set of shell holders do one of two things; 1) buy only one brand of shell holder or 2) buy a shell holder for each set of dies and keep it in the die box. Reason; they can and will very in thickness and can cause a problem in the reverse of what I was talking about above.

I have owned several presses over the years. I have downsized my bench in moving to a condo and have 2 normal presses left: a RCBS Rock Chucker ( with a Hornady L-N-L adapter) and a Redding T-7. These are both very good presses. I shoot with people that use Co-Ax presses and find their ammo to be no better than ammo mad on any other quality press and dies. Once you are a quality/detail oriented reloader the run out is about the same. Bonanza invented the Benchrest seating die and Redding uses that system on their competition dies. RCBS invented the Micrometer seater and Redding uses that on their Competition dies. L. E. Wilson invented the Neck sizing collet and (you guessed it) Redding uses that on the Competition dies, with or without a Micrometer. With all the bells and whistles you won't find a more expensive die set, nor will you find a better one! I own 8 die sets like this and turn out ammo for rifles that do 3 inch groups at 1000 yards

I have both Forester and Wilson case trimmers. Wilson is better for trimming! Forester will do many other things well also, if only getting one, get the Forester. (For 348 Winchester, you would need the Forester "Classic" trimmer, everything else you listed the regular will do) Since I trim mostly on Wilson, the Forester is used for neck turning and neck reaming.

You haven't looked into primer pocket and flash hole prep (target rifles only).

As your are finding out in your research, the quality equipment cost more sometimes alot more! But if you start with the best, you won't need to upgrade later!

The last thing I'll suggest is "Brass". You cannot make the best ammo without the best brass!!! It will cost you, but Lapua is by and large the best brass. Some things won't need that, Like semi-autos that trash or loose brass everytime the trigger is pulled! Winchester will be fine for them (45-70, 30-06, 308 ect.)

Have fun with all the head spinning info. Ivan

You should give a look to a RCBS bench primer

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NRA Pistol/Rifle Inst. RSO

Gents,

Thanks for the additional information. You guys have given me a lot to think about. A couple of thoughts:

1. I did look at the LE Wilson trimmer. The only thing I did not like was the need to purchase so many case holders at $11.50 a pop. The Forster, while perhaps not as well reviewed, did receive plenty of good reviews. For IVAN THE BUTCHER, the current manufactured Forster Original can trim .348 WIN on collet number 4. I understand this was not always the case, and was a recent product improvement.

2. Ultrasonic vs. Tumbler. For my brass, my end goal was to have brass that was "clean enough" to assure proper function and not dirty up my reloading equipment. I do the majority of my shooting outdoors in desert conditions, so I imagine grit could be an issue. I thought that the ultrasonic would be good enough. I also planned to use the ultrasonic to clean my sound suppressors.

3. I see several recommendations for the RCBS Automatic Bench primer. I take it that people do not recommend the APS primer systems due to the spotty availability of primers on the strips? Or is the APS system one of those things that seems like a good idea, but doesn't work out in actual practice?

4. Scales. It seems that RCBS is currently only offering the M500 Mechanical scale. I believe it is a new offering and there were not many reviews. Therefore, I went with the redding almost by default. Took a quick look at electronic scales. Seemed too finicky for me. Perhaps they will improve the technology in these someday.

5. I guess I'll have to buy some LE Wilson case gauges. Sheesh, those things are expensive. I understand that it is a precisely machined tool, but it is just one of those unanticipated costs that make me a little crazy.

At first I thought that reloading would just be a minor supplement to my hobby of shooting. Now I understand that reloading is a world unto itself, a minor manufacturing enterprise in my basement.

I agree there are faster ways to prime like like the RCBS bench primer. On the other hand once the CO-AX presses primer seating system is set up for a specific cartridge it is probably one of the most precise for seating depth. That's is important for autoloaders like the M1 Garand, M1 Carbine, SKS, etc. If you like the pace of reloading on SS press then you can't beat the CO-AX press for for both reloading and primer seating.

Daboone, I watched a great demonstration on youtube of the priming process on a CO-AX. My impression mirrors your thoughts. Slow but very precise.

Which is why I suggested Baby Steps

As with most new reloaders you are suffering from info overload. You also have to much on your plate and trying to accomplish too much at one stroke.

All your listed items are good stuff but learn the craft first and add to it,

Not saying it's for you but say buy the RCBS kit I suggested. It has about all you need minus a few things, get some powder and primers and actually load a caliber whatever handgun you shoot the most. The Press will never go to waste, you can keep it or sell it,

The APS system is actually very good but did not catch on. You can load your own strips and it's safer than explosion tubes But RCBS has phased it out on their new press,

You do not need a sonic cleaner. If your brass is sanding and dirty, wash it in a 5 gal bucket, then tumble it, Just saved a few hundred bucks. You can go crazy buying "stuff"

Regardless there are many ways to prime, the kit has it

How to eat a Whale? One bite at a time.

JMHO Good luck!

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Still Running Against the Wind

I am just going to say one thing, and I am out, as I think we ALL are just confusing someone that is new.
If you have to buy a second machine, because your first machine will not prime unless setup perfectly, then I have to assume for a new reloader, it is not the right machine. When I can take A T7 out of the box, and start loading with it right now. I think you guys have some sort of competition to see how many different machines you can have to do a reload.
I get it, its fun to collect toys, I have a bunch myself., but new guys, are new guys, and need it simplified first.
NEW reloaders need things simple. which is why I recommend what I did.
I load perfect ammo out of a 1960's Pacific, with 1960's dies, using a 10.00 pacific trimmer, when I work at my fathers place, it is not brain surgery.
Shawn.. Keep it simple for YOU. Make yourself Happy, and PM me, if I can further assist.

My final advice on the subject. 😆

BUY THE WILSON TRIMMER! Forget about the cost of the bushings. If you buy anything that uses a collet and not bushings, soon enough you will realize your mistake! 😆

Good luck to you - and have fun!

Seriously? You guys are killing me with this Wilson trimmer. It certainly may be the best trimmer. When I price out the Wilson with all of the stuff needed to get it set up and going, it is basically twice the cost of the Forster.

Here is the bottom line: I don't know enough about trimming to justify the additional cost.

At least no one recommended at Girard? to me yet.

Reloading is a crazy world.

With all the things on your "plate" the trimmer is one of the least of your mediate concerns. They all trim well. Get a RCBS trimmer, or the Forester or the Lyman what ever.

One last time,learn to load some straight wall cases (no trimming needed) learn what you are doing, then deal with all this other stuff.

I ask every new reloader, What caliber do you plan on shooting the most? How much ammo do you REALLY need? Start there.

That will help define what YOU should buy.

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Still Running Against the Wind

I have the original Magnetospeed V1 . . . bought it on announcement day because I hated the hassle carrying/using my CED M2 lol. My MSpeed does not attach to pistols, even those with rails. However, I have used it on rifles at indoor ranges - that's one of its advantages - just for the purpose of checking velocities.

It flat out works, all day, every day, anywhere . . . as long as you can attach it to *your* firearms. The newer versions expand its reach. But it changes POI which makes some methods of load development difficult.

However, given your shooting venue, the optical chrono is probably the right bet at this moment. With the ability to set it up and adjust it fairly easily, you will be able to run most if not all of your load development work through it.

While not strictly necessary, I find having the data on ALL load development rounds very useful, especially to provide a reason for some unusual spreads lol. Using my MagnetoSpeed, I make extra rounds at intervals to get a small sample of velocities. Helpful, but not as good as I'd like.

That's why I have not upgraded the MagnetoSpeed, and have a LabRadar on order. /fingerscrossed.

ETA: If you consider a progressive press, I'd advise a 5-hole press at a minimum. For practical purposes that limits you to a Dillon 650 or Hornady LnL AP. The new 5 and 7 hole RCBS presses are just out and unproven, and not worth taking a chance on when the Dillon/Hornady work very well.

I have no concern about you starting with a progressive . . . you can clearly RTFM . But there's a lot to learn about reloading and letting your own preferences develop before choosing. At the end of the day, a single stage press is always useful no matter where you go from there.

A chronograph is also something you do not "need" at this time let alone one that doesn't work with handguns. Many, many reloaders do not even own one. I bought one many years after I began reloading, Yes they can provide some useful info but do you really need velocity data never having loaded a round yet.?
Stick with published loads out of actual forearms and it will be pretty close,

Think priorities.

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Still Running Against the Wind

OK, I'll take it back. That wasn't my final word - this is. The Wilson trimmer does seem over-priced. But... it will save you more in frustration than it seems to be over-priced. There is nothing more annoying than trying to do good work with a crummy case trimmer.

The bushings are $12 to $26 at Midway. Buy one when you need it. Don't buy them all at once. Ease into it.

Be SURE you buy the Q-type bushings for your revolver cartridges. Yes, they are slower to use and cost more, but they do a better job with the straight-wall cases, IMO.

There. Now that really is all I'll say on that subject.