I gave myself a new M&P AR15 for Christmas and started accumulating all the necessary gear to accomplish loading for the .223 / 5.56mm.I am not new to reloading but this is my first time for this caliber. I acquired a thousand military cases marked LC (Lake City ?), with a few Wolf, Perfecta, Rem etc. I am using an old Lyman die for full case resizing and punching out the primer. In the last 24 hours at about #350+or- cases I have had 3 stuck cases. At first I thought, not enough lube, not so for the next 2 stuck cases. I also have had a significant problem with the rims fitting into the #4 shell holder. On the last two stuck cases the rim has sheared off on two sides coming out of the shell holder. Almost all of the cases are really hard to resize, taking a lot of power on the lever. So far I have broken two decapping pins. I'm using an old Lee single stage press that I have had for over 30 years. This is not going smoothly, what am I doing wrong. HELP!
Reloading Military Brass
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What Lube are you using??
You want lube on the body of the case, not much if any on the shoulder and you want some in the case mouth.
The press needs to be strong enough or yield enough force to resize them through the dies. So you need a strong press.
Some case heads are a little different, I had to send some brass to LEE and they sent me a different case holder. Still the same number.
Just set aside the ones that will not fit for now.
You want lube on the body of the case, not much if any on the shoulder and you want some in the case mouth.
The press needs to be strong enough or yield enough force to resize them through the dies. So you need a strong press.
Some case heads are a little different, I had to send some brass to LEE and they sent me a different case holder. Still the same number.
Just set aside the ones that will not fit for now.
gregintenn
Member
The primers are crimped in military cases, and you'll need to remove the crimp before repriming. A twist of a chamfering tool will do the trick.
I'd get a different shellholder. Ar's are tough on rims, and you can probably see extractor marks on the rims. That may be the cause of your brass not fitting the shellholder.
As for them being tough to resize, I'm at a loss. It the inside of your sizing die pitted or dirty?
I also have Lyman 223 dies. I really don't care for them, although they've loaded a lot of brass. The broken primer pins, as far as I can tell, are just a function of poor design coupled with the crimped primer pockets. I bought a bag of them and just replace them as necessary.
A set of Lee dies would be a great improvement for a small investment.
I use a wax lube. What are you using?
I'd get a different shellholder. Ar's are tough on rims, and you can probably see extractor marks on the rims. That may be the cause of your brass not fitting the shellholder.
As for them being tough to resize, I'm at a loss. It the inside of your sizing die pitted or dirty?
I also have Lyman 223 dies. I really don't care for them, although they've loaded a lot of brass. The broken primer pins, as far as I can tell, are just a function of poor design coupled with the crimped primer pockets. I bought a bag of them and just replace them as necessary.
A set of Lee dies would be a great improvement for a small investment.
I use a wax lube. What are you using?
+1 to all of R3's comments. The LC brass may well have been fired from a SAW, so tends to be roughed up.
You might find it better to get a decapper die or Lee kit to remove the primers independent of the sizing operation. Unless it has already been done, the .mil brass will need the primer crimp removed. Lots of tool and technique info on the web.
Rim thickness and diameter on brass sometimes varies. I have had a lot of trouble with S&B brass in several calibers being too large to get into a shell holder. American made, either .mil or commercial, are very seldom a problem.
(A little observation on Perfecta brass: I have been seeing those empty cases in 9mm and .40 at the range lately. The 9mm's look OK, but the .40's are displaying the old "guppy" swelling at the base, which I had not seen any of since the mid '90's. I reloaded and fired some of the 9mm and it seemed to work fine, but seeing the .40's made me wonder if the metallurgy is not quite up to snuff. There also seems to be a lot of info out there about Perfecta brass having offset flash holes, which may be where your decapping pins are being broken.)
You didn't mention your lube, but I use Imperial Sizing Wax and have been pleased with it in every respect. I keep my fingers lubed up with it for the case body and put a little on a Q tip to use inside the neck. A little goes a long way.
As R3 said, I tend to think your press may not be up to the job. A little play here and there really adds up when you have to bear down on one.
If I don't apply sufficient lube to the lower end of the case--web area--they will stick every time in my RCBS die. Check for dinged rims by inserting the case in the shell holder and spin it. If the case binds, look for defects in the rim. I often find where the ejector has caused a slight flare in the rim. A quick hit with a file cleans it right up.
Another vote for Imperial Sizing Wax. I have not had a problem with any case since I started using it. A little goes a long way.
noylj
Member
Military cases can be a problem. All I have in .223 are military cases and I never had your problem.
Complain about shell holder to company. They most likely have a solution.
I have never used ANY lube in a case neck and never needed any. I really don't know why so many have problems, as I don't, but that may just be the luck of the draw or who knows. The only lube I 'might' use in a case neck would be graphite or micro-fine mica.
I would guess that you have cases fired full-auto in sloppy chambers, with case bulges and case head expansion.
Again, don't be afraid to contact the die company as they really want you to be happy.
Complain about shell holder to company. They most likely have a solution.
I have never used ANY lube in a case neck and never needed any. I really don't know why so many have problems, as I don't, but that may just be the luck of the draw or who knows. The only lube I 'might' use in a case neck would be graphite or micro-fine mica.
I would guess that you have cases fired full-auto in sloppy chambers, with case bulges and case head expansion.
Again, don't be afraid to contact the die company as they really want you to be happy.
ageingstudent
Member
I am guessing that the crimped primers coupled with lube are the bulk of the issue. I punch out the primers first and separately, then use imperial or hornady unique in the manner suggested above. Polishing your brass also helps it move through the dies. If it is super clean and not polished it can be sticky. For military brass I swage the primer pockets to ease primer seating.
Just a note be sure you have the right shell holder/matched to the company that makes it for that caliber. lee is #4 I think RCBS is #10 and they all have a different #scheme.
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Just jumping in with more data. I've loaded this caliber since 1982 using LC or WCC brass exclusively and in a regular RCBS die set. I removed crimps with RCBS crimp swager. I only recently switched to small base dies for no reason other than something new. I like spray type lubes now - works perfectly. After all those years I became lazy and started buying LC and WCC prepped cases. Mostly just decapped and crimp removed but also bought some that were ready to load minus case mouth prep. I could afford them at the time LOL.
MY M&P can be brutal on case head gouging from the extractor. As someone already pointed out, light filing fixes that problem and they rotate properly in the case holder. I'll be trying a new Sharps bolt when the USPS finally gets it here. I'd also like to recommend using a head space gauge (Wilson is what I like). Good luck!
MY M&P can be brutal on case head gouging from the extractor. As someone already pointed out, light filing fixes that problem and they rotate properly in the case holder. I'll be trying a new Sharps bolt when the USPS finally gets it here. I'd also like to recommend using a head space gauge (Wilson is what I like). Good luck!
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Clovishound
Member
When I get tough crimped primers, I remove them using the shell holder placed on the bench, a spare decapping rod, and a small mallet. I put the rod into the case and whack it with the mallet. It's a little time consuming, but you only have to do it once.
Are you lubing the inside of the case mouth?
I've only had a stuck case when I tried lubing every other case. I use Lee dies.
Are you lubing the inside of the case mouth?
I've only had a stuck case when I tried lubing every other case. I use Lee dies.
I also de-cap and size first and then run 'em through a Giraud trimmer. The dies are Dillon Carbide but don't think that makes a whole world of difference. As Webfarmer I also use spray lube..either Dillon or Hornady..whichever is closest to hand. Some gets into the case mouth and I think that does make a bit of difference. As stated you may have gotten a batch of cases shot in full auto firearms. That will make a bit of difference. LC brass is some of the hardest out there though. On spray lube..as it is a suspension for the most part of alcohol and lanolin you have to let migrate around the case and dry completely. I usually sit the cases in a Tupperware box on the tailgate of the truck for an hour or so or let it sit indoors overnight. I usually do more than a 1000 at a time. The Dillon 1050 does the primer pockets but I still swage them first. Case prep is everything when feeding semi-auto or full auto firearms. And although the Dillon will go faster(much faster).. I load at about 1/2 speed(about 500 rds per hour)on rifle cases and inspect every loaded round. Very soon will be loading 308 for my AR-10 and all will be done the same on it. BTW..not real keen on Lyman dies. I would consider a new set of RCBS SB dies or (my preference) Reddings. And the old Lee may need to be replaced. Not much mechanical advantage to them. Find a good used Rockchucker for 50-75 bucks. Much easier on the arm. LOL
Never had any problem like this with my Dillon .223 dies in my 550B...One Shot Spray Lube takes care of my lubing....I use a Dillon Swager to swage the primer pockets on any military brass with a crimp.
Once done it is done forever.......
Randy
Once done it is done forever.......
Randy
That little tool is the cats meow. I rigged mine with a spring to make it go faster. Saw the video on the net. Lots of neat stuff to see.
Hello. You may be facing a world of problems if you are just jumping in to resize and deprime your brass. I have loaded many thousands of rounds of GI brass for my match rifles.
Before you start, you need to sort your brass, first by make, then remove all of the steel cases and toss them.
Next, segregate your European origin brass, since they most likely have Berdan primers (2 flash holes versus 1 central flash hole) instead of Boxer primers.
Then,separate your commercial brass from the military brass.
Personally, I would load the commercial brass first, since the, military brass needs more preparation.
Once you attack the military brass, the primers are crimped. I would use a Lee depriming tool with hammer to remove the primer, then you need to remove the crimp. You can remove the crimp one of two ways: either use a swaging tool in your press (faster and more precise) or do a twist with a deburring tool.
A word of caution: both Berdan primed cases and crimped primer military brass are the greatest source of broken depriming pins!
As a suggestion, I consume a lot of rounds each month in high power competition, and I lean towards both the Hornady spray lube and the Cabela's labeled pump spray lube.
Before you start, you need to sort your brass, first by make, then remove all of the steel cases and toss them.
Next, segregate your European origin brass, since they most likely have Berdan primers (2 flash holes versus 1 central flash hole) instead of Boxer primers.
Then,separate your commercial brass from the military brass.
Personally, I would load the commercial brass first, since the, military brass needs more preparation.
Once you attack the military brass, the primers are crimped. I would use a Lee depriming tool with hammer to remove the primer, then you need to remove the crimp. You can remove the crimp one of two ways: either use a swaging tool in your press (faster and more precise) or do a twist with a deburring tool.
A word of caution: both Berdan primed cases and crimped primer military brass are the greatest source of broken depriming pins!
As a suggestion, I consume a lot of rounds each month in high power competition, and I lean towards both the Hornady spray lube and the Cabela's labeled pump spray lube.
Getting Steel cases out is simple. Fairly large magnet from a speaker does that quickly. As far as separating cases...unless you are shooting precision competition etc..not REALLY necessary. That Lee decapper is a good but slow tool. And..best of all...not very expensive. As far as European brass.... easily removed when you inspect your cases which should be done.
Big Cholla
Member
IMHO, Prepping fired military brass is MUCH easier to hand punch out the primer first using a tool shaped like a shell holder but is made of hard steel. It comes with a steel punch with a top quality primer punch on one end. Place it on an anvil or the flat part of a bench vise and go to work. THEN use a primer pocket shaper and cut the military swaging rim out of the primer pocket. Then use a heavy duty press like a RCBS Rock Chucker and really good dies. The brass must be totally lubed with a good lube. I started using the automotive lube "STP" years ago and have never seen reason to change. Use a rifle lube pad available from most all the reloading suppliers. Spread a little dab of your lubricant around and roll every brass cartridge on that pad until all of it is lubed especially the base area. I use RCBS and Redding dies with the emphasis on Redding when I am going for the utmost in accuracy. Carbide neck resizer plugs are available as an after market improvement to your die set, but are largely unnecessary using the following neck lube technique.
One more trick; lubing the inside of the neck is important and can be difficult to make it uniform brass to brass. Take a small container that can be faithfully resealed over the oncoming years and 3/4s fill it with a very fine shotshell shot like No. 9 thru 12. Buy a tube common white graphite lube powder. Dump most of that tube into that container of shot. Now, when you pick up a brass to place in the reloading press, dip the neck only of the rifle cartridge down into those graphite carrying bbs. Comes out lubed perfectly where it gives great and needed lubing for the inside neck resizer plug to work and it gives uniform neck tension for each and every shot. That is very important for fine accuracy. Liquid lubes will not do that in my experience.
With all due respect, I would recommend that you upgrade the reloading equipment that you are using if you are going to do a lot of rifle work in the future. ...........
One more trick; lubing the inside of the neck is important and can be difficult to make it uniform brass to brass. Take a small container that can be faithfully resealed over the oncoming years and 3/4s fill it with a very fine shotshell shot like No. 9 thru 12. Buy a tube common white graphite lube powder. Dump most of that tube into that container of shot. Now, when you pick up a brass to place in the reloading press, dip the neck only of the rifle cartridge down into those graphite carrying bbs. Comes out lubed perfectly where it gives great and needed lubing for the inside neck resizer plug to work and it gives uniform neck tension for each and every shot. That is very important for fine accuracy. Liquid lubes will not do that in my experience.
With all due respect, I would recommend that you upgrade the reloading equipment that you are using if you are going to do a lot of rifle work in the future. ...........
ageingstudent
Member
I have a chromed hard punch I chuck in my drill press and I clamp a shell holder on the press table. It punches out crimped primers quickly and easily. Then a swage and on to the cleaning/polishing. If I really get with it I can punch out 400ish in an hour. Plenty fast for my needs. Been using the same punch for at least 3 years.
Big Cholla
Member
Good Method But
I like your use of the drill press as a ram for the punch. My tool punch just needs a light hammer. My thought about using reloading shell holders is that in the long run they are not tight enough for me in most cases and I won't use them in any process that might beat them up even a little when I am going to have to use them to make accurate handloads. And then my idea about swaging the primer pocket rather than cutting a new pocket to remove the military crimp is when swaged that displaced metal has to go some where and often in my experience it goes where it wasn't meant. Of course, I have always gravitated towards reloading the most accurate cartridge that I can. I want total repeatability in every step I take. It is not called 'uniforming' military brass for nothing. Just the way I like to do things. ...........
I like your use of the drill press as a ram for the punch. My tool punch just needs a light hammer. My thought about using reloading shell holders is that in the long run they are not tight enough for me in most cases and I won't use them in any process that might beat them up even a little when I am going to have to use them to make accurate handloads. And then my idea about swaging the primer pocket rather than cutting a new pocket to remove the military crimp is when swaged that displaced metal has to go some where and often in my experience it goes where it wasn't meant. Of course, I have always gravitated towards reloading the most accurate cartridge that I can. I want total repeatability in every step I take. It is not called 'uniforming' military brass for nothing. Just the way I like to do things. ...........
OP
Military Brass
Thank guys for all your input. I've learned a lot from your experience. I spent the day processing brass, last night I found a new (old stock) .223 Pacific decapping/sizing die in my vast pile of old gun stuff. I must have picked it up at a gun show years ago and since I did not own a .223, just forgot about it. It works like a charm, smooth as peanut butter. There is something wrong with the Lyman die set, however I am using the bullet seating die out of the set. It seems that all of my issues were related to the Lyman die. The "new" die has really speeded up my processing time.I use two types of case lubes, RCBS-2 and Hornady spray lube. I have never had a problem with them. I like the idea of punching out the primers using a shell holder and a rod. I have ordered a swager for the primer pockets. The case head space gauge came in yesterday and I spent a bit of time learning how to use it. I'm going to take the pin out of the Pacific die and run all 350+ cases thru it that I processed with the Lyman. I have been using a Dremel with a diamond coated bit to ream out the primer pockets, its pretty fast. Again, thanks for your help, its been a learning curve for me!
Thank guys for all your input. I've learned a lot from your experience. I spent the day processing brass, last night I found a new (old stock) .223 Pacific decapping/sizing die in my vast pile of old gun stuff. I must have picked it up at a gun show years ago and since I did not own a .223, just forgot about it. It works like a charm, smooth as peanut butter. There is something wrong with the Lyman die set, however I am using the bullet seating die out of the set. It seems that all of my issues were related to the Lyman die. The "new" die has really speeded up my processing time.I use two types of case lubes, RCBS-2 and Hornady spray lube. I have never had a problem with them. I like the idea of punching out the primers using a shell holder and a rod. I have ordered a swager for the primer pockets. The case head space gauge came in yesterday and I spent a bit of time learning how to use it. I'm going to take the pin out of the Pacific die and run all 350+ cases thru it that I processed with the Lyman. I have been using a Dremel with a diamond coated bit to ream out the primer pockets, its pretty fast. Again, thanks for your help, its been a learning curve for me!
Just wondering on your reloading...do you weigh every charge or use a powder measure? not arguing or anything. just interested in knowing. Benchresters almost all use powder measures to throw their charges. I do weigh every charge on my hunting rounds..to the tenth at the very least.
