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Unique, data differences in 9mm

flyrobb

flyrobb

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I am looking to load some 9's using Unique with Xtreme 124 RN. My two data sources are quite different. I'm referencing the two closest sources I have to the bullet I am using.

Speer #14 data using 124 TMJ RN with a COL of 1.135 list a start of 5.2(1080), max of 5.8(1180) and from what I understand these are plated bullets.

Hornady using 124 FMJ-RN with a COL of 1.150 list a start of 4.0(900) and a max of 5.0(1100) I know these are jacketed and Xtreme site recommends using mid range jacketed data and high end lead.

Also if you have any other sources that might help that would be great. I'm wondering how you guys would treat this data to start loading with a powder you haven't used before.
 
What are your goals with the load? Light plinking load, heavy duty self defense load, the most accurate load...
I'm pretty sure both TMJ and FMJ are jacketed bullets just different marketing. You will notice that the 4.0 load is 900 FPS and the 5.8 load is 1180. That's quite a difference. If the gun your shooting them in is built for +P loads the 5.8 load should be fine. If your shooting something not designed for +P loads I'd stick closer to 5.0 for a max load.
 
When loading Xtreme plated bullets, use data out of the Lyman Cast Reloading manual.

124 gn LSWC
4.4 1063
4.9 1159

Might want to double check those numbers
 
Just looked at Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook 4th edition . Above data posted by KnotRight is correct .
 
Regardless of the data source nothing is going to match unless you use the EXACT same bullet. Even then all tests are different, different time, test parameters, powder lot etc etc.

So you get as close as you can. The big thing is the COL which will need to fit YOUR barrel

Plated bullets should be loaded at mid FMJ data.(don't exceed around 1200fps.) Some say lead data but the bullet makers say both depending on who you are using, The plated bullet is closer to the FMJ than a lead bullet.

Speer bullets are actually a super duper Plated bullet.

This is from Berrys as I can not find anything from Extreme

Question: How do I load Berry's Preferred Plated Bullets? We do not research or publish the load data, but you can use any published load data for a jacketed or lead bullet as long as it is the same weight bullet. Any of the load data books or the powder manufacturers’ website should have that information for you, as long as you keep them under 1250 fps for our standard bullet or 1500fps for the bullets designated as TP (thick plate).
If a COL or OAL is needed please email [email protected] for further information.
 
124 TMJ RN with a COL of 1.135 list a start of 5.2(1080), max of 5.8(1180) and from what I understand these are plated bullets.
Click to expand...

No they are not the same as plated xtreme.

Unique will work for plated xtreme, but it is not the best choice. Unique is best at max loads, which you should not use for plated bullets.
I would start no lower than 4.5 and see how the rounds eject. Go up until the empties land 3 to 6 feet away.

The plated bullet is closer to the FMJ than a lead bullet.
Click to expand...

Light lead loads can stick a plated bullet.

Xtreme site recommends using mid range jacketed data and high end lead.
Click to expand...
 
I have used Unique in a full size Radom to a 3" Kahr ............

the lowest amount of Unique that I was happy with is 4.3grs in the long barrel. The little 3" needed 5.0grs for the large 124gr plated bullet to acquire any accuracy in the Kahr.

Unique will work for target lots but I hate using that much for light loads when one grain less with a fast powder will work. However Unique is a great powder for FULL loads and this is what I save it for.

The last two years has been testing a C9 pistol and with the Xtreme 124gr plated bullet, the "Minimum" OAL that I will use is 1.12" for maximum pressures and fps with some powders.
For light accurate target loads I stretch the OAL out to 1.165", since they work in my pistol.

The 124gr out of the 3.5" with a full load of Unique with a 1.14" OAL will reach 1133 fps and 1207 out of a 4" barrel.

Use Unique for all your loads if you want but..........
if you do have any Bullseye, Red Dot, w231 or CFE type powders, you can go from around 945 to 1050 fps for a very nice target load with a lot less powder and save the Unique for the "Eye Opener" loads.
Good shooting.
 
Also, with light loads of Unique, it is dirty!!! The cases are black around the mouth. Not enough pressure to fully expand the brass to the cylinder wall.

Per Nevada Ed's recommendation about powders
Burn rates:
Bullseye 10
Red Dot 17
231 40
700X 43
Green Dot 44
Unique 57
 
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When loading Xtreme plated bullets, use data out of the Lyman Cast Reloading manual.
124 gn LSWC
4.4 1063
4.9 1159
Click to expand...
Thanks, I don't have the cast manual just the Lyman 49th and that doesn't list a 124gr bullet. This data does come closer to the Hornady though.

No they are not the same as plated xtreme.
Click to expand...
The reason I mentioned Speer being plated is that in the latest Handloader Magazine they have an article on plated bullets and I read this. "Speer Bullet Company is especially known for manufacturing plated bullets with examples including the Gold Dot HP, Deep Curl, TMJ etc." They do go on to state that "The process Speer developed is sophisticated with state-of-the-art technology that electrochemically bonds copper to a swaged lead core one molecule at at time." I'm guessing this is a much better process that Xtreme uses hence the cost difference.

I did call Xtreme once and they told me to use Speer data but the two data sources I site here were so different I wanted to get different opinions here.
Use Unique for all your loads if you want but..........
if you do have any Bullseye, Red Dot, w231 or CFE type powders, you can go from around 945 to 1050 fps for a very nice target load with a lot less powder and save the Unique for the "Eye Opener" loads.
Good shooting.
Click to expand...
Well I actually have all the powders you mentioned and just picked up some Power Pistol this weekend as well. Might just bag the Unique for this and go to a better option.

To answer an earlier question I am just looking for range loads with good accuracy. Not SD loads.
 
I am not a big Unique fan. I use it in 45 Colt and have used it in other calibers, As mentioned it is best at near max loads. I like HP 38 better. 9mm is good with medium to slow burn powders.

I load FMJ and use Power Pistol even Longshot. I think BE is to fast, yes many many people use it and it's fine.

I read that article, I am not a fan of the author, he makes some points but Speer has always been a plated bullet. Unfortunately the article did not cover Berrys or Rainers , heck they started the whole plated bullet thing. I would have liked to see a comparison of the difference in plating between the brands. I have no data but would bet Speer is bonded better than these other companies. To me it is FMJ.
 
Someone suggested that 4.8 grains of Unique is a good safe load for most all 124 grain bullets in 9MM. After loading various 124 grain bullets in various cases I would agree. It's a medium load and should cycle most all pistols. I seat 124 gr hollowpoints at 1.125" and FMJ's at 1.150"-1.160". I would suggest starting at 4.5 grains and work up. Speer's data for their Gold Dot 124's is higher than I want to go. I load Speer Gold Dot's at 5.4 grains for 1136 fps in a 4 1/4" barrel. My load for plated and jacketed 124 grain bullets is 5.0-5.1 grains and still not maximum but an accurate load in pistol and carbine. Of all the 124's I've loaded I'd consider maximum at about 5.5 grains. Work up to 5.0 grains for your heavy plated 124 grain bullets and I think you'll like this level.. I use mostly all CCI 500 primers and my favorite 9MM brass is Winchester. I only use Unique powder for 9MM.
 
The shorter COAL

The shorter COAL will have somewhat higher pressure which can count for some of the discrepancies. I'm well aware of how much reloading data can vary and sometimes the difference is so great I get stymied.:confused:
 
Some info here with plated bullets. It's Midway's Rainier plated bullet data in pdf. As mentioned, seating shorter bullet seating greatly effects pressure especially in 9MM.

cakesniffer.org/stuff/boom/RanierData.pdf
 
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rg1 said:
Some info here with plated bullets. It's Midway's Rainier plated bullet data in pdf. As mentioned, seating shorter bullet seating greatly effects pressure especially in 9MM.

cakesniffer.org/stuff/boom/RanierData.pdf
Click to expand...
Good stuff, thank you! I feel like I have a good starting point so I am going to load a few test rounds just to satisfy my curiosity. I have plenty of other powders mentioned so I don't have to use exclusively.

Speaking of Rainier this is from their web site:
Rainier recommends using commercially published jacketed bullet load data when loading our projectiles. There is no need for adjustment when using jacketed bullet load data. Our bullets are completely encapsulated in copper, creating a “Total Copper Jacket” (TCJ) through a specialized electroplating process, and are softer than traditionally jacketed bullets.

We recommend a starting powder charge directly between the listed minimum and maximum load found in various published and reputable reloading manuals.
 
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I recently tried Unique in 9mm and I loaded up 5.2 - 5.8 gr and the best performer in my Range Officer 1911 9mm was 5.8 excellent cycling, and shot around 1.2" groups at 25 ft. 5.2 was also an accurate load, but I had 2 stovepipes out of 10 rounds so i'm thinking this load was a bit too light.
 
Nevada Ed said:
Use Unique for all your loads if you want but..........
if you do have any Bullseye, Red Dot, w231 or CFE type powders, you can go from around 945 to 1050 fps for a very nice target load with a lot less powder and save the Unique for the "Eye Opener" loads.
Good shooting.
Click to expand...

Agree 100%. I used to use Bullseye strictly for light target loads, and Unique for mid to heavy loads. A few years ago I started saving Unique for just the "Eye Opener" loads and Bullseye for the mid as well as light loads. Meters better, costs less. My 9mm training load is 4.3 grs. Bullseye. With 124 FMJ I get 1062 fps avg. With 124 RNL I get 1121 fps avg., using my M&P 9c. These loads closely mimic many factory 124 JHP standard and +P rounds so are excellent for training. Plated should be ballpark, but ONE needs to chrono ONE's own loads to be sure.
 
Road_Clam said:
I recently tried Unique in 9mm and I loaded up 5.2 - 5.8 gr and the best performer in my Range Officer 1911 9mm was 5.8 excellent cycling, and shot around 1.2" groups at 25 ft. 5.2 was also an accurate load, but I had 2 stovepipes out of 10 rounds so i'm thinking this load was a bit too light.
Click to expand...
Interesting your data follows the Speer manual (5.2-5.8) for Unique where many comments on this thread are much lower charges. Which bullet were you using?

Just goes to show...
 
flyrobb said:
Interesting your data follows the Speer manual (5.2-5.8) for Unique where many comments on this thread are much lower charges. Which bullet were you using?

Just goes to show...
Click to expand...

I was running Berry's 115 gr fmj RN's . I was watching for over pressure signs but my primers looked excellent all the way up to 5.8 gr. My RO is brand new so the stovepipes may be resulting from a new pistol that's still tight. Once the weather gets better I want to get my Crony out and get some velocities. My 5.8 load could possibly be a bit "hot" and I don't like pushing bullets to max.
 
I shoot a number of brands of plated 124gr. all with mixed cases, light taper crimp, using 5.0 gr. Unique. They function perfectly, in every size nine I own from a Kahr PM9 to a Sig 226.
 
"Interesting your data follows the Speer manual (5.2-5.8) for Unique where many comments on this thread are much lower charges." (quote) ...........

Actually my Speer manual shows the 124gr bullet with MORE powder...............
I have Lyman and Alliant data that shows the above amounts of Unique powder and have used them safely in several pistols.

A 3" Kahr with Unique reached 1168 fps with a 115gr plated RN.
With the 124gr plated I was able to get 1112 fps.

With my C9 3.5" pistol a 115gr plated with a Milt case averaged 1263 fps...........the 124gr with a Federal case did 1173 fps, both with a maximum loading.

Full loads are a lot nicer to shoot if your pistol is close to 30 ounces or more........... but you can always down load.
 
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