Looking for 44 mag 300gr thoughts

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Elksticker

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I just ordered some LBT 300gr WFNGC from Montana Bullet Works. The closest data I can find is for a Lyman 300gr SWC. I am still fairly new at reloading, so I am wondering about things like will there be enough difference in pressure to be concerned with if there is a difference seating depth in the case? I don't plan on shooting lots of these, but I want a fairly stout load as I spend a lot of time in the big bear woods in Montana. I also don't want to be too hard on my 629-6 Mountain. I will be using 2400. I appreciate any help or thoughts from anyone with experience loading something like this. Thank you
 
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You should be working your loads up anyway. Use the midrange data & work up in 3/10gr increments with 2400.
 
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In looking at the pictures on Montana Bullets webpage, as suspected the LBT WFN-GC has more of the weight on the outside of the case (forward the crimp groove) vs the Lyman bullet right above it. They list a nose-to-crimp groove length but it would be nice if they listed a base-to-crimp groove length (or the bullet's overall length) so you would know the seating depth difference.

Lyman's Cast Bullet Handbook #4 lists the Lyman 300gr SWC-GC bullet as well as a Lee 310gr RF-GC which may more closely approximate the LBT WFN-GC in seating depth. It's load data is slightly higher that the Lyman's (max 16.6 vs 15.7gr/2400). Either way, a incremental work-up is in order.

.
 
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I got a SSK 300 grain Mold in the early 80's before there was published data. I don't think hard cast 300 grain 44 mags go fast enough to require a gas check. Everybody thinks 2400 is the only powder for 44 mag, you might look at H-110/ WW 296. Depending on what gun you are using, you can load up a 300 that will destroy a S&W but be fine in a Ruger. Just because a load won't blow the gun up, don't assume your revolver won't shake apart after a 1000 or so rounds (many old time silhouette shooters couldn't get a season full out of a standard Model 29, so the 8 3/8" 29 Classic had a beefed up system to last a whole season before returning to the factory!)

I am a fan of heavy bullets at moderate speed! There is a learning curve for trajectory though! On paper a 30-06 will out do a 45-70 in almost every way, but in the real world big heavy bullets out perform when it counts. (Ask the American Bison!) You just need to able to get the distance right.

I have used quite a few hundred 300's in a T/C 14" with results that are astounding on any target but paper. The groups are fine, but you can do that with a 22 rim fire. Shoot a thing, just about ANY thing, with a 44-300 and you will be shocked! I once took a 5 gallon bucket filled with water and burped all the air from under the lid, and on top filled a second lidless bucket to the top. When I shot the lower bucket from about 35 yards, the water spout was 25 to 30 yards tall, and I did get wet (over 100 feet away!) I have shot free standing concrete blocks at 50 yards and had them vanish, with only a small amount of white powder and pea gravel left!

While you could make your bullets into hollow points with a 3/16" drill bit, it isn't necessary with medium hardness solids. The thumb sized entry, and shoe sized exit holes on wet soft targets or game, don't really require expansion aides!

Enjoy the big boom! Ivan
 
Great stuff, but more questions. I understand about working up my load, but to where? Is the max recommended load ok for my Smith, or are we in Ruger country there? I don't have a chrono, so was looking to approach max load but stop a little shy of it.
 
Elksticker said:
Great stuff, but more questions. I understand about working up my load, but to where? Is the max recommended load ok for my Smith, or are we in Ruger country there? I don't have a chrono, so was looking to approach max load but stop a little shy of it.
Click to expand...

Well book max for the bullet data you have would be your benchmark. Loads should get sticky extraction when pushing max or just over. IMO, w/o a chrono, you are truly flying blind when going off the book. I wouldn't run the same max loads in any S&W that I would in my Ruger. The gun isn't going to come apart but will get beat to death. Every gun is diff, why we work loads up. You really can't expect to plug & play at max, any caliber, any gun, any data source. Plug & play loads only work at midrange levels & slightly above. Max loads are always worked up to for EVERY GUN.
 
Elksticker,

Seat and crimp a dummy round to the overall cartridge length you plan on using. With the Montana Bullet Works WFNGC (.370" Crimp to Nose), it should be between 1.65 to 1.67" when crimped in the crimp groove. It will depend on brass length (1.275 Min & 1.285" Max) and where you locate the crimp.

Speer's latest manual (#14) lists a cartridge overal length at 1.665" using their 300g jacketed soft point in the .44 Magnum.

Using Speer brass and CCI 300 (standard, not magnum) primers with A2400,

the start load is 17.1gr of 2400 for 1,003 fps from a 7 1/2" Ruger
and
the MAX load is 19.0gr of 2400 for 1,088 fps from the 7 1/2" Ruger.

IF IT WERE ME, I would use the Speer Load Data, with an OAL of 1.65" or longer, and again, working up from the "start load" until you get a load that is accurate and controllable, but not exceeding 19.0gr of 2400.

You can get another 100 fps if you use WW296 or H110 (same powder).

I would use 300gr loads sparingly in the 629.

FWIW,

Paul
 
Groo here
The 2400 powder is a little fast for 300+gr loads.
I also have an SSK 320gr mold and the data for it SHOULD NOT
be used with other bullet without working up.
The combination is unique.
This is my secret load for "weaker"44mags as given to me my J.D.
Take your case and mark it where the bullet base is when seated.
using WW680/or AA1680 fill to that mark, weigh , do this 5 or more times, average and call this 100%.
Starting is 90%.
Work up till you hit 100% or the cases will not drop out from a clean chamber.
Check for group size. If the group will fit your needs ,stop.
If not reduce but no more than 90%.
This is a "balanced" load, usually about 50 fps difference between
a 4 3/4in and a 7 1/2 in barrel.
The powder is slow ans pushes the bullet all the way out ,
About 100 fps slower than 296/H110 but with much less pressure.
As I say, the cases will about fall out on there own.
This loading is for heavy bullets only, lighter ones are just a waste
of lead and powder.
Heavy means, 180gr cast or heaver for 357mag[I use 205gr SSK, 250ish or more for 41mag[I use 295gr SSK] 300+ for 44mag [I use 320gr SSK, very carefully in ruger only 45 colt and 454mag
maybe 300gr [ I have the 340gr SSK 454 mold]
All these are CAST bullets.
Use at your own risk!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Years ago, the only 44-300 was a Barns Original, that they invented for 444 Marlin. The Data they sent with the 300 was for 444 only, so I called the ballistic lab they had. They gave me a load that was safe in the T/C, but was considered MAX or a little above for Ruger SBH. I worked up their load. The Primers were flattened to the point that it was hard to find the edge on non-plated primers. I gave 6 to a friend with a SBH and told him full discloser. He fired 3 with open sights at 100 yards, they made a 5/8" clover leaf. He told me they shook his entire body like an earthquake. He did use the remaining 3 to take three deer in handgun season, but refused my offer for more rounds!

I wanted to share a couple of observations. 1) When you work up hot or very hot loads; use virgin brass and only reload 2 or 3 times, then it becomes medium load only brass. 2) Beware of "Little Gun" maximum loads, at the upper end they spike and have destroyed brass on some of the cartridges I tested the powder in. 3 & lastly) If you for some reason routinely need more power than an upper mid-level 44 Mag. Buy a X-frame or T/C in 460 or 500 S&W. That level of hand artillery will fill any realistic need you have (and take a big dent out of any fantasies you might have too.)

Ivan
 
I load 310gr LFP with 2400, it's fine. If you are trying to milk an extra 50fps or so, then H110 or Lilgun will give you that. I would have to look up my data but 1200fps in my RBHBH 7 1/2" bbl is about right. I personally don't see the need for 300gr+ bullets in the 44mag. A good 250gr LSWC will not stop inside anything walking on 4 legs in NA. MY hunting bullet is a modified Lyman Dev to a cup point. The bullet weighs in at 270gr, expands well cast soft & driven @ 1250fps. It's flat shooting for 100yd shots on game, further on steel.
 
Max loads

Elksticker said:
Great stuff, but more questions. I understand about working up my load, but to where? Is the max recommended load ok for my Smith, or are we in Ruger country there? I don't have a chrono, so was looking to approach max load but stop a little shy of it.
Click to expand...

Your hand / wrist will tell you when you have a max load before anything else: chronograph, sticky extraction, primer problems, or worn out revolver. :rolleyes:
 
Lots of great feedback, exactly the kind of thoughts and info I was hoping for. Thanks for your patience with a rookie! Pretty tough to buy you all a beer, certainly would if I could
 
Paul105 said:
Speer's latest manual (#14) lists a cartridge overal length at 1.665" using their 300g jacketed soft point in the .44 Magnum.

Using Speer brass and CCI 300 (standard, not magnum) primers with A2400, the start load is 17.1gr of 2400 for 1,003 fps from a 7 1/2" Ruger and the MAX load is 19.0gr of 2400 for 1,088 fps from the 7 1/2" Ruger ...working up from the "start load" until you get a load that is accurate and controllable, but not exceeding 19.0gr of 2400.
Click to expand...

There's a "Lab Note" under this 300gr UCSP bullet in Speer #14. In part it says:

"The UCSP's lead core is harder than lighter Speer bullets resulting in lower pressure. These are the reasons the 300gr loads do no track with lighter bullets." (Their 270gr GDSP has a max of 17.5gr/2400.)

The Lyman cast bullets loads I mentioned in post #3 (max 16.6 vs 15.7gr/2400) have pressure readings of 39.2K CUP & 37.2K CUP, respectively.

.
 
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The Montana Bullet Works LBT bullets are “hard cast” (BHN = 22).

Above I said “if it were me” I would do ….. --- In the end, it’s your gun and you need to be comfortable with whatever you decide to do. Here is a good read on loading the .44 magnum.


From John Taffin’s Book of the .44

41. 44 BULLETS, POWDERS, PRIMERS, AND DIES

At the bottom of the chapter is load data for the 300gr LBT bullet (max charge of 2400 is 18.5gr using a CCI 350 Mag primer (mag primers no longer recommend for use with 2400 as magnum primers increase pressure without increasing velocity).

The Keith bullet and its copies use the semi-wadcutter shape with most of the weight of the bullet inside the case. LBT bullets are quite different. Most of the weight of the bullet is outside the case with only enough inside to allow for solid crimping and lubrication.

LBT bullets are full caliber at the mouth of the brass case and then taper ever so slightly to provide either the LFN or WFN shape. The WFN is for up close and personal while the LFN design gives better accuracy at longer ranges. With the weight in the nose, penetration is superb and at the same pressure levels heavier bullets can be driven at the same muzzle velocities as standard weight bullets.

NOTE that the heavy bullet loads were tested using CCI 350 (magnum primers) – Current loads using 2400 call for standard, not magnum primers as magnum primers increase pressure without increasing velocity: “Let us look at some of the heavyweight bullets used in the .44 Magnum beginning with 10 cast bullets. All loads were assembled using Starline’s excellent and durable .44 Magnum brass, CCI #350 Magnum Large Pistol primers.”

Good luck,

Paul
 
I may be going against the grain but if I think I need that kind of horsepower I think I will opt for a rifle. A 45/70 lever gun with a peep sight and sling is not that hard to carry and way easier to make good hits with. Those heavy bullets loads are just more than I want in a handgun.
 
twodog max said:
I may be going against the grain but if I think I need that kind of horsepower I think I will opt for a rifle. A 45/70 lever gun with a peep sight and sling is not that hard to carry and way easier to make good hits with. Those heavy bullets loads are just more than I want in a handgun.
Click to expand...

I tend to agree. As I noted, a 250gr LSWC won't likely stay inside anything under 1000#. Maybe for big bears, cape buffalo or elephant, but for what most of us hunt, a 300gr LFP is just adding a lot of recoil to the equation, JMO. I have worked up loads for them, just don't feel the need for what I hunt, which is deer & hogs.
 
Hogs? did you say Hogs. Well according to this sporting hunter you need a 375!!:D

Any comments on too much gun are deleted.

Note how wild the hogs are as they look at the camera from 15 yards and don't run:rolleyes:. I also like that after he shoots one he whispers to the camera?? Don't want to scare the little ones??

Yes, Fl hogs are tough but they are not bullet proof!

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i842Kgxfw6U[/ame]
 
fredj338 said:
I tend to agree. As I noted, a 250gr LSWC won't likely stay inside anything under 1000#. Maybe for big bears, cape buffalo or elephant, but for what most of us hunt, a 300gr LFP is just adding a lot of recoil to the equation, JMO. I have worked up loads for them, just don't feel the need for what I hunt, which is deer & hogs.
Click to expand...

I understand what you and twodog are saying and were I looking for trouble of this kind I would certainly be carrying a rifle. However carrying a rifle simply does not work when bowhunting, could work but be a pain when fishing, would probably be leaning against a tree when picking huckleberries, and, well i could keep rambling. I have had several encounters with the biggest of bears and mad mommy moose that could have gone either way, both in SE Alaska and Montana. I was carrying a rifle on those occasions, and a couple of times was safety off and about to squeeze when things suddenly de fused. My .44 is as much as I want to carry when I am not expecting trouble, when it is rifle season I have my .338, very rarely slung. And don't even get me started on bear spray. Didn't mean to go off, and I mean no disrespect, I do think our situations are quite different though
 
I've loaded many thousand rounds for the 44 mag with 2400, but when I go to the heavy weights I much prefer H110/WW296. The pressure is much more steady in its rise. 2400 tends to spike quickly. Hodgdon data is available for the 325gr LBT which would be a good starting point.

Dan
 
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