Well I've been happily chugging along with my Lee classic cast for a few years now. But I have an old shoulder seperation rearing its ugly head lately and the extra 3 strokes per round might be taking its toll on me.

I had a deal on a square deal fall through recently and have spent the money on something else but may be regretting that decision now!

My issue is that I don't load a whole lot of rounds. I shoot a couple hundred a month of 9mm, 38/357, with a little 35 Remington sprinkled in. I know the square deal doesn't do rifle but for how much 35 I load I could keep the Lee or pick up a second hand single stage.

Is it worth it to save up for a progressive with my shooting requirements? I've even considered the Lee pro 1000 for price but it doesn't have positive feedback on the priming system. FYI, I prime with an auto prime 2 (usually a different day to keep the shoulder together!), so it really takes me 5 handle pulls to make a round. I like the idea of auto indexing also but it's not a deal breaker.

At this point I'm open to all options as far as presses/ideas. Be it used rcbs piggyback or pro1000 to possibly a 550 or Hornady LNL, maybe sell my classic turret to help fund? Just trying to stay on a budget as much as possible as money is tight and I don't want to give up shooting because it's becoming a pain to load!

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Jim

Forgot to add that the one thing I don't like about the pro1000 is its only 3 stations and I like to crimp and seat on different stations. Not a deal killer but something to consider.

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Jim

Well, yes, a progressive is definitely worth it. You will never look back. Get the Square Deal if you can, the 550 is even better. I have loaded a great big pile of rounds on Square Deals, and a goodly number on the 550 and 650 as well.

Don't talk yourself out of it.

Thanks and that's what I'm thinking. Almost trying to talk myself out of it maybe. Time to start going through my junk looking for stuff to sell and make a couple bucks!

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Jim

I have loaded on a square deal before and didn't like it. I have loaded 10s of thousands of rounds on a RL550 (4 of them actually) and feel these are the best value out there. I have used most progressives made and would choose something from Dillon over anything else, either a 550, 650, or 1050.

I bought the Hornady LNL first of this year as a total beginner. Yep, never loaded anything before in my life. Set up was pretty easy and within a couple days I was loading rounds. As of now I've loaded about 3k total of 380, 9mm, 38Special, 40S&W, 45ACP, 44Mag, and 223/5.56 ammo. I have run into a couple problems here and there, some I figured out on my own and others the folks here helped me out. While I did have a few problems none were the fault of the press and all were rookie mistakes.

I'm not a bench rest shooter and my loads are for target practice/plinking. I can easily turn out a couple hundred rounds in an hour taking my time and not rushing. If I did this all over again I can't see any reason to do it differently. Been 100% happy so far.

It's absolutely worth getting a progressive with a shoulder problem. I have a similar issue with my shoulder.

I have a Lee turret that did everything I needed, but I had to schedule my reloading sessions around my shoulder.

I still use the turret for two low volume calibers, and a progressive for my higher volume 9 and 38 spl.

It's worth saving up... that repetition can really wear on our bodies.

Will

I agree with the Dillon 550, but whatever you do don't get the Lee 1000. Loading on one for me was misery defined.

I couldn't see myself without both a progressive and a single stage.

Dan

I use a system that I have named "semi-progressive" because I had a goal in mind and some strict guidelines along the way.

I had loaded single stage for 20yrs before making any change. I was (still am) shooting a LOT of handgun ammo and full progressive was really where I "needed" to be, but here were my roadblocks:

I load a huge array of different calibers. More than a dozen, though some rarely. To set up a progressive press for ALL those calibers was going to be a ridiculous price tag no matter which progressive machine you choose.

I also am very much in love with my Lyman 55 and my single stage technique/process. Basically, it's VERY important to me to hold a tray of 50rds and inspect them for powder level. And nearly as much, the feel in my press lever when seating bullets is something very important to my process.

What I wanted was a new way of sizing, decapping, priming and flaring brass that saved me lever strokes -AND- saved me the repetitive & exhausting small hand motions of picking up brass, sliding in to a shell holder and removing from shell holder.

I went with a Lee Pro-1000. With an array of shell plates (cheap price!) and both small/large priming setups, I now use this machine to prep all of my brass.

There isn't one single thing about a Lee Pro-1000 that matches up or beats a Dillon progressive EXCEPT the night & day difference in price. And the fact that my ammo is fantastic.

My log says I've loaded over 8,900rds so far in 2016. I have prepped somewhere near 100,000 pieces of brass on this machine. I'm currently able to prep .32 Mag, .327 Federal, .380 Auto, .38 Super, 9mm, .38 Special, .357 Mag, 40cal, 10mm, .41 Mag, .45 Auto, .460 Rowland and .45 Colt.

I do leave .30 Carb, .357-44 B&D, .460 Mag and .500 Mag for the single stage.

The Pro-1000 is "fiddly" just as many have reported. It's cheap build quality is geared with a budget in mind. But when you learn it's quirks and keep an eye on things, it is absolutely capable of serious production.

Making a lot of ammo is still a lot of labor, no doubt. And my process is definitely slower and more work than a full progressive, for sure. But when it's time for me to make ammo, I reach for a container with several hundred pieces of brass that's already clean, sized, primed and flared. All I do is charge and seat/crimp and I'm ready for shooting.

My system is not for everyone. But if someone wants a fun mathematical exercise, try and outfit a Dillon 550 to run those 13 different chamberings. Not including the dies that I already owned, I have around $300 in to my Pro-1000.

Oops. Add .44 Mag to that list. Knew I'd forget something.

Thanks guys. By the way, not looking for the best press on the planet, but I want something functional. There's no need for a 1050 or anything. More than likely I'll be buying second hand to keep the cost lower.

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Jim

One of the great things about any progressive is the work saved, one handle pull, one round. Go fast or slow, you are still saving work. If speed isn't an issue, then a 550 or LNL, no case feeder. I would avoid any Lee, unless you just like to tinker. Too many worry over initial cost IMO. Consider what factory ammo costs today, even a 1050 is cheap over 5-10yrs, even for lowly 9mm.
Side note, last weekend I needed 800rds for a training class. On my 650, it took me less than 2hrs total reloading time. So when you need the volume, it's nice to have options that no Lee can really give you. I could also have done it on my 550, maybe 2.5hrs, but I was going pretty slow on the 650.

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NRA Cert. Inst. IDPA CSO

we bought a used Dillon 550B back in 2000, after doing all our reloading for better than 20 years on our Rock Chucker. my teen aged daughter had grown to love shooting center fire pistols and it was just too hard on me & my wife to reload for her on the Rock Chucker...

Heck the first night we had the Dillon... after we got it set up.. the girls loaded 485 .38 spec LWC's rounds in about 1 hour. I loaded the primer tubes for them.

My wife advanced the index & put in the new case & worked the handle each time... while our daughter eye balled the powder level in the case on station 3 & put the bullet on the charged case each time... and we do all of the crimping on station 4..& we've kept to this method ever since for nearly all of our loading on it. Though I do some handgun loading on it by myself, though at a much slower speed.

We load .38 spec, .357 mag, .44 spec, .44mag, .45 ACP, .45 Colt(Long Colt), 9mm para and all .223 Rem intended for 600yard shooting or less are all done on the Dillon 550B. The Dillon is flat out easy to use once you've set up the dies for it... it takes us about 30 minutes to set up a new set of dies & adjust the belling on stage 2 & to adjust the powder thrower for each caliber from scratch...

Once that's done.. switching to another caliber with the same sized primer is a snap... switching from small primers to large is easy... once you get the hang of it.. but keep your Dillon instruction book handy.. it is very well written & is easy to understand.

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be safe,enjoylife,journey well

I have owned a L-N-L AP and could not get it to work properly, and got rid of it! That was 2+ years ago. I have had a 4 position Dillon (450)since 1984. When I bought it, you had to manually push the primer bar forward and manually push the powder measurer. Those items and others have been updated until I am using a current model (550b). If you find an older model, It Is Still Under Warranty. It can also be updated as far as you wish! I have gone with the changeable tool heads with several permanently set up for a cartridge. I also have a few I leave empty, to set up for limited runs of over 150-200 minimum. Over the years I have loaded 2 batches of 9mm that were just over 10,000 rounds 1 batch of 223 that was 20,000 round, and about every 2 years a batch of 45 acp that are over 5,000 rounds and occasional batches of 2000-3000 of 38 special, 44-40, 45 Colt. Along with 1000-1500 round batches of 44 Special, 44 Russian, 45 S&W, 45-70 and a few others. The truth is I don't own enough brass to make 30-30, 35 rem, 22-250 and the like worth setting up, so they are loaded in small batches on my T-7 turret or 50+ year old Rock Chucker. I still have about 6500 round of 223 for the AR and the bolt action 223's each get a special loading.

A complete chance of dies, powder charging, shell plate and priming takes about 20 to 30 min once you are use to it. If you have changeable tool heads you save the easiest part, about 5 minutes. the shell plate is about 5 or less. The powder adjustment is the time user! but spare powder measurers are $77.95 each. I think I can make several adjustments for $78! There are several tricks for making fewer adjustments, but now isn't the time to hash this out.

The important thing is get a progressive press and load lots of ammo, shoot it up, then turn around and load it again.

Ivan

I forgot about the 450's. Something to consider!

I'm not in this for monstrous piles of ammo manufacturing as I was more than happy to load 150ish in an hour. However that's 750 handle pulls on the turret (remember I prime with auto prime 2). With a progressive it'll be a lot less obviously. Spending the money to make such small batches for me is a hard pill to swallow, until my shoulder starts tensing up. I'm only 35 and this isn't getting any better so it is what it is. Thanks everyone.

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Jim

Some good threads to help you review and decide on this board.
Notable Thread Index

I can't speak highly enough about my Hornady LNL
https://www.midsouthshooterssupply.c...gressive-press

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Really? U saw it in Wikipedia?

Let me be the first, and maybe last, to say my loadmaster is great. Lee has fixed the old primer issues. The things that go wrong are caused by operator error.It "is" a good thing to maximize production per effort. Prior to loadmaster I was using the hand clam. The weakest,most vital QC link is the powder measure. Even the most reliable, need to be monitored. At the risk of sounding like a pitch man, the Lee auto drum is very consistent at the most reasonable price. Currently I am loading 9mm, 380 and 32 acp. As always use care and due diligence.

For your needs the Dillon 550 is the way to go, easy to learn, price is right, great service and tech support.

Thanks again. With the exception of the square deal I can just use my dies and I have a couple uniflows set up as case activated so I'm set there. Just need a press and shell plates for it and I'd be good to go.

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Jim

The 550 is everything you need and nothing you don't. It will use your existing dies. Caliber conversations are not cheap, but cheaper than the other Dillon presses.

I have a Square Deal,,not even the 'B', so it's been around a while. I bought it new either in the late 70's or early 80's.
I like it and load 38 & 9mm on it as that's what I shoot most in a handgun. Everything else is done on single stage press and there are a lot of different calibers!

Doing it over again I'd probably have added a Dillon 550 or similar progressive for the rifle rounds too.
It's getting old reloading even a single box of '06 or 30-30, ect for the common rifles.
I'd like to be able to crank out a good supply for each to last a while then change the machine and run another caliber.
The single stage presses (3) would still be used for the odd ones like 470NE and the metrics that don't normally get as many rounds thru them. I don't need to crank out a few hundred 500x3in NE or 9.3x74R rds.
I wouldn't mind being able to load all the 35Rem brass I have in one sitting and be done with it though.

The SD would stay too, it still cranks out great ammo and is one press I really like. I can't use the wall full of standard dies I have in it though,,one of the draw backs to it.

I went to a Mec progressive shotshell press about 15 years ago in 12ga.
Still have single stage presses in 20 and 410. What a drag having to load a few boxes on those after working with the progressive.
A well tuned and working progressive sure can spoil you!

Ok, this is just me but at 35, you have at least 25yrs of shooting. Buy a 550 with goodies new, call it $600, you already have scale, calipers, etc. So over the next 25yrs, that press will cost you $2/month?!?!?! The press will never wear out & if it does, Dillon will rebuild it free. There is nothing you can do for $2/month & get even close to the return on investment. Far too many shooters agonize over buying quality, trouble free gear, but happily plop down $$ for factory ammo. Bite the bullet, buy a new 550, done. You'll never need another press, never wear it out. That can not be said about most things we buy.

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NRA Cert. Inst. IDPA CSO

I'm really leaning towards a Dillon at this point. I'm not a brand snob or anything either. The hornady also seems like a great press. I love my rcbs equipment however their pricing seems through the roof.

While I like my Lee classic cast a lot I think I'm going to pass on their progressives. I'm just not in the mood to become a tinkerer with it although I am capable. Being a father of a 3 year old uses up all of my patience these days already.

The ONLY thing I'm not fond of about the 550 is the non auto index. I know this is always brought up and not really an issue. I just "prefer" auto. Absolutely not a deal breaker though. This leaves me with the SDB, LNL, and 650. The 650 is getting up there in price while the SDB leaves single stage for rifle and proprietary dies. And for some reason I've always wanted an SDB. I see them pop up on the used market sometimes around $250 which I can probably swing already.

Maybe the 550 is the right choice anyway? I guess it'll probably go more like what's available on the used market when I have cash? I'll throw up a wtb ad and see what comes up. Of course, anyone who has a press they'd like to part with now feel free to pm me. Maybe we can work out a deal? Plus I always have the turret I could sell.

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Jim

By the way, everyone's post was read, considered, and appreciated. Thanks for your experiences.

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Jim

I procrastinated for decades and now have 550. Got it used so there was some issues. One call to Dillon and all is perfect now. Wish they built pick up trucks.

I would like to input some info on the non-self indexing presses. The only self indexing reloading press I own is a 12 to 15 year old MEC 9000 in 12 gauge. This year I bought 2 brand new MEC "Grabber" presses in 410 and 28. Considering the operator error I have with the wide mouthed 9000, I decided to pass on self indexing to help control the number of things that could go wrong. On Metallic presses it is much simpler, with the auto priming adjusted properly and the case actuated powder drop. On the RL 450/550b, if there is no case in that slot; it is a non-issue. My F-I-L has 2 of the Dillon RL 1050's and a friend has an old original RL 1000, I am very familiar with the pleasures and pit falls of the self indexing presses (along with my horrid experience with the L-N-L AP never indexed correctly). On the 1050's I have turned out 500 rounds in about 20 minutes, but someone else kept the cases, primers, powder and bullet tray full (and at that rate a 3rd person can only keep 2 1050's filled up). Pretty much I have the same limitations on a shotshell or metallic case press. PRIMER SUPPLY is the biggest bottle neck (of a non-mechanical failure problem). I have 11 tubes for large primers (and 6 small). I fill the primer magazine and all 11 tubes, for most hand gun rounds that is 2.5+ hours and about 3.25 for many rifle rounds. It is defiantly time for a break, and I found 6 or so hours was the limit for a day.

The biggest fear mentioned was a double charge. I never had one in production, and the few I did have were in set up and adjustment. Those rounds don't get bullets.

Originally the RL 450 was indexed by grasping a cartridge, an early factory update added a 4 armed handle to index with, but on larger cartridges it is sometimes easier to grab the round. IT REALLY HAS NEVER BEEN AN ISSUE with anyone that actually used a Dillon 450 or 550.

In 1985 I told my best friend to forgo his next gun purchase and buy a (new) RL450, Did he? NO!!! In about 2008 he picked up an old used RL450, and was immediately sorry he had waited so long. When he posted in this Forum about it, Dillon PM ed him to let him know that his press was still under warranty, and small missing pieces were still available.

Have I broke or lost parts? YUP you bet! Did I need to pay for that? Sometimes! It depends on what part and if you are buying something else they can slip it in the package with. For example; I had the spent primer shoot wear out, In that call I also ordered some shell plates that I didn't have. I also had dropped the ball that holds the shell plate in proper alignment down a heating vent (second time!) I keep the spare parts kit for such emergencies, but I then need another. Since I was already paying freight, the gave me the 39 cent part for free.

Have fun with the choice you make, If you don't like it, choose again and sell the mistake. Reloading and Unloading ammo is a joy many "FREE" countries' citizens don't get to enjoy!

Ivan

Sorry, but that statement doesn't cut the mustard any more.

Dillon may build good stuff and have great CS, but if they discontinue a model, apparently, you are out of luck.

Not saying that isn't different than anyone else's products either, but nobody takes care of your gear forever, not even Dillon.

I have a lot of presses. Nine Dillons in all. (5) square deal b's (2) 550's and (2) 650's. I really like the square deal b's. Great reloaders but limited to handgun ammunition. For ease of use they are the best.

Although I own two of them I've never understood the fascination with the 550's. Mine get very little use. Why buy a progressive without auto indexing?

The 650 with the case feed is the cat's meow. As long as everything works right. They are kind of expensive but worth every penny.

I shoot mostly handgun rounds in about 8 cal(15K/year vs 500 for rifles).I've got a Dillon RL300 which is the granddaddy of the 550 set up for all my small primer calibers(9mm,.38Spl,.357 Mag and some .45ACP SP).My Square Deal is set up for,you guessed it large primers rds(.45 Colt,.45ACP,.44 and .41 Mag).My rifle rds are loaded on a single stage RCBS Rockchucker.
If I'd have to have only one,I'd go without a doubt with the Dillon 550.

Qc

Well sure, if they disc a model, no parts to rebuild, but point, you'll get your $$ worth over 30-35yrs.
As to manual indexing, just not an issue for anyone with adult attention span. You visually verify powder drop, place the bullet as you manually advance. Its almost idiot proof. The best part about manual indexing is if there is an issue, you can fix it more readily, before anutoindexing advances. There is no speed advantage to auto index, you wait for the shell plate to adv to set a bullet or you adv while you set a bullet. The best part about a 550 is its dead bang simple.
Thirty years ago i did not buy a sdb, got the 550 instead. I would never buy a press with proprietary dies & no rifle & some limits on other pistol, like 357sig. The $100 diff, who cares, that is 500rds of 9mm factory, a good weekend of shooting. A 650 is a great press but really needs a case feeder. That also makes it mor complicated & expensive & unkess you need 500rds + in an hour, unnecessary.

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NRA Cert. Inst. IDPA CSO

There are presses other than Dillon ?

Good lord!!! I've been loading 46 years on my RCBS single stage press. I load for about 20 calibers. I guess that I'm just an anachronism....I have thought about progressive presses, but every time I get ready to buy, some gun that I've "wanted all my life" turns up. You guys make me feel like the old timer that I am!!

One thing that struck me above, is the poster who likes to have a tray of 50 rounds to look across to see that there are no double or more charges, and no missed charges. That's me. I'm going back and read his post again.

Best Regards

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SWCA 3084, SWHF 495, PGCA 3064

Im still using a 38 year old Rock Chucker. In 1991 I added the Piggyback
to load handgun rounds progressive. When I load rifle Calibers the Piggyback easily detaches to go back to single stage.
I understand disability, profoundly, and with that being said I still am very happy with this set up.
Jim

I see you are in Quakertown. If you are interested and if it's still available, I (think) I know where there is a Dillon 450 for $100.00 Read about this press up thread. The press is in the Allentown area. PM me if interested. I have no interest in the sale one way or the other and I don't know if that is a fair price or not. As of a week ago it was available not sure if it still is.

If the OP doesn't take the 450 in Allentown, PM me, I'll grab it up.

By the way, I have to agree with VanMan. I have a loadmaster, and I've run over 10K of 9mm through it. Yes every now and again I get a turned primer. Never had a double charge (almost impossible on a LM). It indexes automatically, shells feed automatically, and crimps at a dedicated station.

The trick to a Loadmaster (and any press) is a rock solid mount. And I mean rock solid as in NO MOVEMENT. It's worth the effort to keep your presses dead solid.

The only real PITA with the LM is the emptying of spent primers, But I can overlook that for saving a couple hundred dollars.

Boogs

Not sure where you are at in all of this so here is my 1 cents worth.

I too looked and read until I just finally made a decision. I load 6 handgun and 2 rifle calibers. I didn't mind the old Pacific SS I had, still use it. Wanted the ability to sit down and crank out some serious rounds because at that time, my time was pretty valuable and in short supply.

A friend has the original Square D and loves it to this day. He also was given a 650 for Christmas a few years ago and it took quite a bit of time to master, and this guy is a machinist by trade, no slouch. He now lives a few hours away and we got together a couple of weeks ago and he was having some problems with his 650 priming.

I did all of my research taking into consideration what I wanted to accomplish. I didn't want auto indexing, I wanted progressive, I wanted to use my existing dies, I priced every caliber change, I wanted five stations with a powder cop/check die as starters. After all of that I ended up with a LNL and have never looked back.

I don't find my LNL any different than my friends in 650 in the initial set up process and keeping the system clean and functioning. He gets powder spills that shut things down just as a LNL owner will.

My conclusion is that the trick is in the initial set up and taking time to fully understand what happens at each stroke. There are lots of moving parts and at first I didn't like that, I have to admit. There are primer shuttles moving, primers dropping, shell plates rotating and flexing, brass lining up, powder dropping, and all sorts of other things.

Sit down, calculate the costs and the features. I could have been happy with a 650 which I think more closely competes with the LNL but I chose the red machine and it has worked very well for me. There are just a ton of factors to consider besides the color and I am convinced that set up and fully understanding each operation is the key. It is not a "plug and play" system although some would have you believe it is.

Good luck

Pm'd! Thanks, Allentown is 15 minutes away.

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Jim

I was in the same boat not too long ago, and was considering upgrading from my Lee CTP. Looked at the 550 and 650 Dillon products; not the Square Deal as I wanted to keep using all my existing dies. Also considered the LnL AP press. Although many said that their production rates with the 550 press was more than adequate, coming from my auto-indexing Lee, it just seemed like going to the Dillon 550 would be like taking a step backwards. I couldn't justify going to the 650. I ended up going to the Hornady LnL AP press which gave me 5 holes and auto-indexing. I've only been using it for a few months not, but it's been performing great. Of course, getting 500 free XTP's for my 44Mag didn't hurt. Extra benefit is that the Horndy support seems to be great and there's a lot of options out there for obtaining accessories from multiple sources.

It seems like press selection is an emotional thing for many handloaders. My feeling is there are several reasons for this but like all tools you get what you pay for. A complicated low cost progressive is, by the rules of nature, going to have some built-in compromises to accommodate it's low cost and an expensive single stage will have perhaps some extra something that appeals to those who are willing to spend more than average. But in general more money means more speed.

I do not understand the attitude that is at the core of some who imply in hushed tones that shooters who pump out lots of ammo quickly are somehow not paying attention to quality. I also don't understand the smugness of those who opt for low cost and imply also in hushed tones that they are somehow the smarter, more informed consumer.

Huskerguy, I agree with you 100%, I have a LNL and spent a lot of time researching the purchase. I've been handloading for about 3 years and have spent a ton of money on this hobby. I can afford any commercially available press on the market but since I have spent so much in such a small amount of time I needed to draw the line.

Having processed somewhere over 10k rounds and actually closer to 15k on my LNL over the last year I can say it does it's job well. A few weeks ago I had a minor issue and had to call Hornady for a new part which they sent promptly and at no cost. In the meantime I completely disassembled the press, and I mean completely took it apart. I now have a much better understanding of how it works and have it running better than ever.

So add to my list of people I don't understand are those who say thay had this press and couldn't get it to work. Out of the box my RCBS rock chucker, Lee SS and RCBS turret press worked well. But I have made a few modifications, small things to all of them to get better performance from them. I'm not a mechanical wizard, just an average Joe so if I can do it just about anyone can.

And that's my opinion on the matter.

Well as of earlier this afternoon I officially became a Dillon owner. Nothing new or fancy but on the tip off of Thomas15 I picked up a 450rl for $100 out the door. It is in the original box, original styrofoam, receipt from 1983 and all! Included a set of carbide does from rcbs in 45acp along with the matching shell plate. Has the manual powder measure but upgraded to the auto primer feed. Owner even kept the original manual primer feed parts!

Unfortunately no small pistol tube for the automatic primer feeder but it has the slider bar for them. So I'll have to buy the tube it looks like and some shell plates and I'll be loading!

Are the shell plates the same for the 550 and 450?

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Jim

I can't answer your shell plate question, but for $100, you struck gold.

I suffered through the Lee experience with not one but two 1000's. I bought a 650 (no, I'm not made of money but was working a lot of overtime then) and have nothing but good things to say about it and Dillon customer service. They even answer dumb questions!

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So many S&W's, so few funds!!

Which brings me to my wish list:


HEY LEE, how about marketing a full progressive press that uses the same 4 whole turrets as the LTC. If anybody can do it, you guys can.

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Dave

I've been wondering the same thing for a few years, why can't they upgrade the Pro 1000 to a 4 hole classic design? I'd try one, if they did

There are probably more squibs & double charges done with a ss & loading blocks. Anytime you are handling multiple pieces, potential for multiple mistakes.
If you are using a progressive correctly, you are verifying each powder charge before seating a bullet. One charged case to look into, one point only to make a mistake.

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NRA Cert. Inst. IDPA CSO

Well, Fred, I won't argue the point, I should have made the change years ago, but I always seem to find some new gun that I need, or stock up on powder, primers, bullets, lead, etc., etc. and sometimes I'm glad I did.

Just one example: before the last ammo shortage, Walmart had federal .45 ammo for a really low price. Loaded ammo, FMJ stuff, but about as cheap as I could load it myself. And they had tons of it. And there are about 5 Walmarts around where I live. They were selling it by the 100 Rd box, and you could get it in the 500 Rd "case". I had no idea that we were facing a shortage, but every time I went into Walmart, there was all that ammo sitting there, and no one was interested. So every time I was there, I'd buy a case or two. Now don't get me wrong, I was not trying to take anything away from my fellow shooters, but it seemed prudent to buy.

6 months later, I sure was glad I did. You couldn't find any 45 anywhere, for any price. And I was doing the same thing with other calibers as well. And of course I save the brass for reloading, and I weathered the ammo famine pretty well. Also stock up on primers and powder whenever it is available, and all that takes up a lot of my disposable income.

In case you think that I am selfish, I also share my ammo with friends who didn't bother to stock up when they had the chance!

Not to mention buying guns whenever I get a chance.

So, I have just never gotten around to updating my press. May one of these days, but right now might be one of those times when I ought to stock up on powder and primers instead, because I don't like what might be coming down the road!!

Anyway, best Regards, Les

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SWCA 3084, SWHF 495, PGCA 3064

I have no real knowledge of the mind of the Lee family but I do know a thing or two about marketing. Lee has set out to satisfy a specific segment of the reloading market. Dillon has actually done the same, it's just a different part of the market. Lee has figured out what the price that their market will pay and design their products around the cost. If they move off that point by say 10% they will lose a certain amount of market share.

If Lee were to market a progressive press to seriously compete with Dillon or Hornady then the cost will be similar to Dillon or Hornady. And no one will buy them because if you decide to pay Dillon or Hornady prices you are buying a Dillon or Hornady not Lee.

This is the reason why Lee is not probably going to incorporate the inline fabrications reverse rotating shell ejector on their turret press. If they charge the extra $40.00-$50.00 to make the change buyers will opt for an RCBS or Lyman turret press which has about 4 times the iron of the Lee. Lee knows that 98% of the buyers of their turret press are looking for the least expensive press they can find and making any changes will push the retail price in the wrong direction.

Remember one fact of life, the minute a company stops making a profit they begin a death spiral.

I don't say any of this to be mean, just the facts of life. I think it was Fred a few posts above mentioned that a Dillon 650 that you use for 25 years will end up costing about $2.00/month. And at the end of the 25 years if you decide to pass it on, someone will be delighted to take it and use it for another 25 years. You get what you pay for. How many of us have a safe full of guns that cost $600.00 or more? Most of us would be my guess.

Let me be clear, I'm not saying that your Lee press makes inferior ammo. I have one and it works fine. It's just that I like a more robust press.

Les no one thinks your selfish at all. If you see something and you want to buy it that's your right to do so. No apology necessary.

Not to put words in Fred's mouth but I think he is reacting to the often made implication that slower is somehow better when it comes to making your own ammo. Not saying you do it but a lot do. Personally I don't care one way or the other but we are having a conversation and I'm including myself in that conversation. There are those that imply that somehow spending less money than the next guy makes them a better person. Not saying your do that either. Don't get me wrong, those who open up their wallets wide can be obnoxious about it also but at least to their credit they are not usually making the false claim that their tooling of choice is safer than the other guys.

I have loaded 1 squib round in my life and that was on a rockchucker. My fault and I accept responsibility but I have since shot a ton of ammo from my progressive no squibs.

I fought the urge to go progressive for about a year and a half. Once I caved I found there is no going back. The damage is permanent.

But Les I agree with you, having a stock of powder, primers and bullets with a single stage press to process your ammo is far better than having a high cost progressive and no powder. And I think that now is a good time to stock up.

I'm still using the Rockchucker I bought in the 80s and cant see myself moving away from it. I'm in no hurry. I have my own range and do quite a bit of shooting, and have no problems keeping up. I mostly buy bulk 9mm and 556 because you just cant load as cheap as you can buy loaded ammo. I mean, I'm getting 9mm at 10.50 a box and 500 556 LC for 159.00. I load all my .44 and .357 revolver rounds as well as .223, .30/06, and .32 Win special. It's expensive buying bullets and primers. I break up loading chores into stages and it doesn't seem to be taking it's toll

I've been using the Hornady LNLAP since 2008, I like it a lot. I like the bushing system for plugging in dies, the auto index, 5 stations, and it won't dump primers on the floor.

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Common sense isn't so common.

Presses seem to accumulate on my benches and in the drawers around them, the only ones I've sold were a piggyback-2 to help fund my first Dillon and a lee ammomaster, it was too much like playing a game of mousetrap.
The cost on the 450 that Boogsawaste got was amazing and I'm sure with the ability to use standard dies it will work out well, I will say that I think a SQ-Deal-B might be easier on the shoulders. I think the lower reciprocating mass and shorter stroke make the little SQ-DB about the lightest press to work I've used. If it was me with a bum shoulder, I'd take the profit on selling the 450 and some dies and get a SQ-DB.