Let's talk about powder density....

Fishslayer · Jul 28, 2016

Rule3 said:
True but look at the performance.

Titegroup generates more pressure and LESS velocity.

Depends on what you want in a load. Plus the odds are greater for a new reloader to have bad things happen with such a fast powder in a magnum load.

Lots of misunderstanding on that point. Slow powders are about greater velocity without exceeding a given pressure level.

If somebody is going to be unsafe with dense powder they'll be unsafe with bulky powder.

As for density, that's a different kettle o' fish. I load 9mm, .38 & .45ACP with Bullseye & Green Dot. Load data is close enough to almost be considered identical but Green Dot is roughly 33% more bulky than Bullseye. Bigger flakes I think. In fact a double charge of 2 x 4.6 gr in a .45ACP case would be so obvious Stevie Wonder couldn't miss it.

As for the Lee spreadsheet, it's useful for getting in the ballpark, that's about it.

noylj · Jul 28, 2016

Just for information, there is the actual density of the powder (quite likely nearly the same for all nitrocellulose powders) and the bulk (packing) density of the powder (that includes imperfect packing and lots of air space). Reloaders only need worry about bulk density.
No, I don't see any difference in loads that isn't explained by ball vs flake and burn rate vs charge weight.
You can compare bulk density using Lee VMD data (VMD = inverse of bulk density).
AA2 uses about the same charge weight as Bullseye and Red Dot, at very similar burn rates.
Compared to the cost of bullets (unless hand cast from free lead), powder cost is really insignificant.

OKFC05 · Jul 28, 2016

Rule3 said:
True but look at the performance.

Titegroup generates more pressure and LESS velocity.

Depends on what you want in a load. Plus the odds are greater for a new reloader to have bad things happen with such a fast powder in a magnum load.

The speed produced is the integrated value of the area under the pressure curve (total work done on bullet), not the peak pressure. So the oft repeated statement that compares peak pressure to MV is at best irrelevant. Some beginners get the notion a load with the lowest possible peak pressure is a good idea, but such loads are often smokey and erratic. What I try to teach new loaders is to choose a balanced load with a powder that is not crowding either end of the pressure range for that caliber, and concentrate on their technique to learn consistency.

It is true that more of an overload can be put in a large case with a faster powder, but I don't accept the inverse implication that slow powders are foolproof.

Nothing is foolproof for a sufficiently ingenious fool.

Rule3 · Jul 28, 2016

OKFC05 said:
The speed produced is the integrated value of the area under the pressure curve (total work done on bullet), not the peak pressure. So the oft repeated statement that compares peak pressure to MV is at best irrelevant. Some beginners get the notion a load with the lowest possible peak pressure is a good idea, but such loads are often smokey and erratic. What I try to teach new loaders is to choose a balanced load with a powder that is not crowding either end of the pressure range for that caliber, and concentrate on their technique to learn consistency.

It is true that more of an overload can be put in a large case with a faster powder, but I don't accept the inverse implication that slow powders are foolproof.

Nothing is foolproof for a sufficiently ingenious fool.

Never ever said that slow powders where fool proof.

I said,
"Plus the odds are greater for a new reloader to have bad things happen with such a fast powder in a magnum load".

Generally the powder that fills the case up the most (within load data!) is a powder that will give the best results/ Load density per caliber/powder.

"dumping" a double charge of say 2400 in a 357 is not possible but a a double of TG is. Also the slower powders in relation to above will not in general cause a Kboom if by accident a charge slightly higher than recommend max load. Where again a faster powder is more likely to cause a pressure spike. Yes, there are many variables as to what powder, caliber etc etc.

Nevada Ed · Jul 28, 2016

I have used Xtra light minimum powder loads below data manuals to
powder flowing over a rifle case to get either maximum fps or a 90% accuracy load.

It just depends on what works our for you in the loads you develop.
Some people try to pinch pennys while others don't care on the amount of powder to get a good load.

However I do like a 45% case volume in revolver or pistol loads and at least a 80% of standard rifle powder, for standard size bullets.

Lead or plinkers are a whole new ball game......... that take extra care.

Bugkiller99 · Jul 29, 2016

OKFC05 said:
The speed produced is the integrated value of the area under the pressure curve (total work done on bullet), not the peak pressure. So the oft repeated statement that compares peak pressure to MV is at best irrelevant.

Finally got to use all the calculus you took.

OKFC05 · Jul 29, 2016

Bugkiller99 said:
Finally got to use all the calculus you took.

Not all, but at least some of it. After retiring the first time, I decided to teach math and physics in college.
Gave a standing offer to skip any section that did not have a practical use, and never had to skip anything. Nothing like real life engineer/physics problems to illustrate "Why calculus?"

Let's talk about powder density....

Fishslayer

US Veteran, Absent Comrade

noylj

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OKFC05

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Rule3

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Nevada Ed

US Veteran

Bugkiller99

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OKFC05

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