bowling pin match challenge

m657 · Sep 28, 2016

I'm going out of town for a few days, interrupting my current little project. Laboring to find the 'best' bowling pin match load in each of these calibers: 45 acp/10mm/44 mag or 44 special.

Given the constraints of the game, there are some conflicting design aspects.

The general performance dynamics I've considered are these:

1) accuracy at 50';

2) terminal ballistic effect on moving bowling pin at least 2' off table rather than just knocking it down;

3) minimal recoil/muzzle flash/etc

The 'sweet spot' of the bowling pin shrinks as the projectile mass/velocity decreases.

Massive destruction of the pin is not the goal; hot 44 mag loads have no real advantage over those that simply move the pin back 2';

Yes, 38 special/9mm will do the job but requires greater consistency in smaller sweet spot on the pin to accomplish the required pin-off-table;

Local club rules for the match, are maximum of 6 loaded rounds at a time; max 18 per turn for the 6 targets.

If you have to take extra shots to move them off the table even if you knocked 'em over, you probably lose. Double elimination means if you lose twice you go home early, like I do all too often.

I'll be back on line Sunday; hope to see some good recipes/discussion posted.

29aholic · Sep 28, 2016

For 44's mag or spl I like 7gr 700X and a 240gr LSWC.

For 45acp I like 255 45 Colt bullets. I used 700X but dont remember the charge

Neumann · Sep 28, 2016

A .44 Magnum is likely to make a hole and not move the pin much. Some people think the extra jump using .44 Special affects accuracy, but that's not my experience.

My choice would be a 625 .45 ACP. Besides the effectiveness of a slow, heavy bullet on bowling pins, the 625 is incredibly quick to reload using moon clips. They practically leap from your fingers into the cylinder. (The cylinder and star can be aggressively chamfered without risk of poor extraction.)

.45 ACP is also an accurate round, possibly due to using fast powder, a small charge, with uniform ignition. My first outing with a 625 PC (4") gave me 2" groups at 10 yards, and for me that's pretty good.

elpac3 · Sep 28, 2016

For the .44 mag. I load a Rim Rock 200 gr. WC over 4.5 grains Bullseye.

.45 I use a 200 gr. SWC with 4.0 Bullseye

Collo Rosso · Sep 28, 2016

My club breaks it down by semi-auto/DA revolver/SA revolver and then an overall winner, no limit on rounds, SA revolver can bring 2 guns to the line.
A couple of weeks ago I won the semi-auto and overall with a S.A. 1911 loaded shooting my plinking rounds of 230gr. MBC coated hard ball with WST. Nothing special. If you hit'm right, they clear the table.
I have a 627 I've been wanting to try but haven't bought a holster for it (we must draw from a holster). Penn bullets makes a .357 230gr. flat nose just for pins I'd like to try.

fredj338 · Sep 28, 2016

For me it is more about bullet shape than extra vel or even weight. A large flat point smacks the pin hard, delivering the most momentum. You also want as little recoil as possible for faster shooting. For me, anything hotter than std pressure 45acp is too slow for good splits. A 250gr LFP @ 700fps is decisive on a bowling pin, especially if the meplate is large. The Lee 200gr & 255gr LFP design is about as good a pin bullet as it gets in a semi. In a rev, a full wc @ modest vel would be my choice.

fredj338 · Sep 28, 2016

Neumann said:
A .44 Magnum is likely to make a hole and not move the pin much. Some people think the extra jump using .44 Special affects accuracy, but that's not my experience.

My choice would be a 625 .45 ACP. Besides the effectiveness of a slow, heavy bullet on bowling pins, the 625 is incredibly quick to reload using moon clips. They practically leap from your fingers into the cylinder. (The cylinder and star can be aggressively chamfered without risk of poor extraction.)

.45 ACP is also an accurate round, possibly due to using fast powder, a small charge, with uniform ignition. My first outing with a 625 PC (4") gave me 2" groups at 10 yards, and for me that's pretty good.

Again, bullet choice is important. The full power 44mag with a WC is moving that pin into the next table. It's just slower to shoot than the same bullet @ 900fps & the pin is going off the table.
reloading in a pin match is a moot point. If you are reloading, you already lost.

ACP230 · Sep 28, 2016

I started shooting pins at the old Second Chance shoot.
Used .45 ACP most usually with RNL bullets with Unique powder.
Velocity was around 900 fps and the load worked fine when I did. My guns weren't impressed with the flat nose bullets I tried.

Shot a while with a six-inch M57 .41 Magnum. Loads for that
had a 215, 225 or 230 grain bullets with a flat nose. They were
also loaded with Unique powder and velocity was around 1,000 fps.
Pins left the table more quickly with the .41 and usually trailed by
a cloud of splinters.

Fishinfool · Sep 29, 2016

I used to shoot a lot of bowling pin matches. 1st time was with a model 28 loaded with hot 125 grain .357's. A mistake. Hit em, split em, but many just spun on the table. Recoil slowed me down.

I eventually settled on cast 200 grain WC's over 6 grains of Red Dot in my .44 mag revolvers, and 230 grain cast SWC's in my 1911's at about 825 fps. Both were controllable, and cleared the table nicely.

I never worried about speed of reloading, because as stated in an above post, if you have to reload, you have already lost.

You want just enough power to reliably knock a pin off the table, while giving yourself a quick recovery time. Flat profiled bullet noses work better than RN's. I even seen some guys using "grabber" type bullets, with nose profiles resembling a saw blade. Don't think they really helped any past a good flat nosed bullet, but they did look impressive. If you are on your game, you will clear the table in 5 seconds, or less. Most matches I shot were from the low ready position, though some do it from the holster.

Pin shooting used to be really popular back in the 1980's, but I don't see it as much anymore, at least here around central PA.

Larry

ArchAngelCD · Sep 29, 2016

Bullets of at least 180gr in the 38/357 are the best bowling pin loads I have ever used. The 45 ACP is close behind with heavy bullets with the fattest nose you can find.

The MBC has a 180gr bullet with a wide flat nose that can be used in a 38/357 case. Missouri Bullet Company

They also have a 250gr 45 ACP bullets call the Pin Buster. Missouri Bullet Company

Missouri Bullets has good heavy bullets for the 40/10mm and the 44 on their site too. When killing bowling pins bullet weight counts more than bullet velocity.

Forrest r · Sep 29, 2016

44mag:
Any 200gr to 250gr cast/lead bullet with 6.0gr to 6.5gr of clays
7.0gr of bullseye and a cast/lead "keith" 245gr/250gr swc

Any of those loads listed above will have more than enough accuracy (x-ring on nra 25yd target/1 1/2" groups @ 25yds). Depending on the bullet/load I get 900fps+ (245gr/250gr) with the big swc's and 1000fps or less from the lighter 200gr bullets with the loads listed above in a 6 1/2" bbl'd 629 classic. Those loads are mild enough that I shoot them 1 handed nra bullseye style practicing slow fire and rapids on the 25yd targets.

A 245gr/250gr bullet doing 900fps+ is a fearsome critter on bowling pins & a 200gr wc doing around 950fps is just as good.

The 45acp is cave man simple, any load with a 200gr to 250gr cast/lead bullet with 5.0gr of bullseye pushing them. A h&g #68 200gr swc with 5.0gr of bullseye has given me laser accuracy and +/- 950fps with several different 5" bbl'd 1911's over the decades. Soft shooting and hits hard.

I'm sure you already know this but here goes. You want to hit the pins on the labels/trade marks that are just below the necks. The pins are solid there and the bullets will not blow thru the pins. Hitting them there also drives the pins strait back.

Used to shoot a lot of pins at a local club. Won allot of matches with nothing more than a 6" bbl'd 586 s&w 357 & 158gr rn bullets (lyman 358311). The loads weren't hot but they were extremely accurate. Used to pi$$ allot of the semi-auto guys off. Dark day at dim rock when a double actioned wheel gun stomps a bunch of 1911's.

AveragEd · Sep 29, 2016

Fishinfool said:
Pin shooting used to be really popular back in the 1980's, but I don't see it as much anymore, at least here around central PA.

Larry

Larry, you're right - I don't hear about many shooting events at all in our neck of the woods. Even in my old sport of trapshooting, hereabouts it's registered shoots, small leagues or just practice. I used to run meat shoots at Palmyra and Mechanicsburg Sportsmens' Associations and they were very popular. Today, I only know of a few of them in the entire south-central Pennsylvania region.

"Action" shoots like pins and plates are only held at a few clubs, including the two I already mentioned although Mechanicsburg's are very small shoots while Palmyra's have growth to include an annual national multi-day program. There's potential for growth at Mechanicsburg, however, and I hope to see their shoots become a bi-weekly event that isn't finished in two hours.

Ed

H Richard · Sep 29, 2016

There used to be a Mfg. that had a "sawtooth" nose bullet in 44 and 45 caliber. it would dig into the pins from about any angle and take them off. Loads I always found were about factory 45 APC and 44 Spec to have plenty enough take down power.

tndrfttom · Sep 29, 2016

I’ve been shooting “pins” with a bunch of local shooters for 10 or 15 years and we’ve seen or experimented with about every combination of guns and ammo you can think of from 9mm to 44 Automag. After much trial and error it seems like almost everyone tends to gravitate back to a 1911 Government Model chambered in .45 ACP. Plain old 230 grain .45 hardball will reliably get the job done out of a stock 5 inch barrel but many of the competitors use a ported 6 or 7 inch barrel or compensated 5 inch barrel with a hot (maximum or near max.) reload using a H&G 68 style 200 grain cast bullet. The shooters tailor their reloaded ammo to drive the pins off the table with authority and still be controllable for recovery and follow up shots. Finding a balance between knock down power and a good shot-to-shot recovery time varies with the individual and gun configuration. Some guys will tell you how much and what kind of powder they are using and some won’t – they treat it like it is a trade secret. I don’t post specific loads because what might work fine in my pistol may not be suited to your application at all.

We did have a contingent of revolver shooters but those have faded away. Popular caliber/revolvers were 7 shot .357s with magnum-equivalent reloads or Model 25 or 625 Smiths. I would shoot a Model 29 occasionally but just used a .44 Spl. reload for controlability.

.40 S&W has a few followers and we had a 10mm proponent for a while but he ended up downloading his ammo till if fell somewhere between .40 S&W and 10mm.

Our rules are a little different from the original poster’s match rules. We have 5 pins on each table. We allow a maximum of 10 rounds per gun with unlimited reloads (but if you have to reload you’ve probably already lost). For Cowboy/single action shooters we allow two loaded revolvers. We will shoot double (or sometimes triple) elimination depending on how many shooters show up and sometimes we will shoot a “round robin” style match, that way you have to shoot against each of the other shooters.

Engineer1911 · Sep 30, 2016

In 45 acp with a 255 gr cast SWC (intended for 45 LC) I used max listed slow powder charge and a 22# recoil spring -- Impressive Results.

In 44 mag, again slow powder 1.0 to 1.7 grains under max with 255 gr cast SWC (Lyman) was adequate without painful recoil.

My disclaimer is I shot these loads in the 1980's before arthritis slowed me down. My 45 acp had a Bomar sight rib, and my 44 mag was a 7-1/2" Ruger Redhawk. Good luck.

noylj · Sep 30, 2016

The only critical factors I found was the POI has to match the POA and you have to hit what you are aiming at. Good hits outweigh bullet weight and velocity.
A S&W M52 (5-shot wadcutter) was excellent--if you didn't miss. Any target load for a .45 Auto was more than adequate--if you didn't miss.

drummer007 · Sep 30, 2016

My current pin load is a .358 diameter 230 grain lead full wadcutter (Badman Bullets) loaded into a 38 special case on top of 7.1 grains of Blue Dot. Velocity is ~ 940 ft/sec.

A Bowling Pin shoot is a momentum game and the momentum on this load is equal to a 230 grain +P 45 ACP. Also, one should try for maximum momentum with minimum recoil. This load does that. It will knock a pin back and off the table.

I put this load onto moon clips and fire them out of an 8 shot 627 with a 4" barrel. Since they are full wadcutters, I only use them for the first 8 rounds in a string because they are not an easy reload and they will hangup on a chamber's mouth during a reload. If I do my job, I don't need a second 8, but just in case I don't do my job, the second 8 on my belt are factory Remington 357 Magnum 158 grain SJHPs.

m657 · Oct 3, 2016

Thanks for the discussion gents. Appreciate the ideas & observations.

For my own purposes, this quote is classic: "POI has to match the POA and you have to hit what you are aiming at. Good hits outweigh bullet weight and velocity."

Since I am one of those 'who can hit stuff I'm not even aiming at' far too easily compared to that Sweet Spot on the pin, I enjoy seeing the experience of others.

Our own club has a small group of regulars who shoot pins. The Match Director continues to hold the "6 rounds per string" and "18 round maximum" guidelines. I've come to appreciate how that improves my overall skills in the very basics of target pistol intent.

My own best results, however spotty my own accuracy issues may be, includes these factors:

1) 180-240 g SWC cast;
2) 850-1100 fps;

Regardless of caliber, those give me the most common 'good results'. Powders seem relatively not as big a factor.
Barrel length is not as important as my own personal variable for the match.

Sometimes I can practice just prior to match & get excellent accuracy. Something is lost in the translation to the performance under the watchful eye of the stop plate though, as I can miss with complete abandon.

Pins magnifies the pleasant benefits of concentration and need for action.

Sometimes I shoot a 4" revolver more accurately than an 8 3/8" using favorite loads of each. There is something not precisely measurable involved.

dswancutt · Oct 3, 2016

The pin matches I go to are run slightly different. There are 7 classes. 22 auto, 22 revolver, mid size auto (9mm), mid size revolver, large auto (40 cal and larger), large revolver and pin heads. No limit on number of rounds in the mag or how much you bring to the line. You shoot against someone, not against the clock. First person to get all the pins on the ground wins. By the time you get to large auto, the pins are heavy with lead and pretty shot up.

Lee's Landing Billy · Oct 3, 2016

I had a good deal of luck in the 80s at pin matches. Won a gun and some money over time. I ran 3 BIG pin matches attended by nationally ranked pin shooters. What we found was ANY caliber shooting a 200 grain bullet at 800 FPS would wipe them off with authority. We shot by Richard Davis' Second Chance rules. Starting position was, gun muzzle resting on a rail ready, distance was 21 feet to front of table, Table was a 4x8 sheet of 1/4 inch steel with 4x4 front bumper level with steel. The pins were set in 6 inches, 1 foot in from the sides and equal distanced in between. The pins had to be shot OFF the table. We had three timers with stop watches, we threw out the high and low and recorded the middle. Any caliber of 200 grains at 800 fps was a good "pin killer" and a good compromise of power and recoil.

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