I am confused on the depth to seat the bullet in the photo. These are copper plated 158gr SWC.
The photo on the left has an OAL of 1.455 and the photo on the right has an OAL of 1.389, both in the acceptable range for a .38. By the way, they are charged with 4.2gr of WIN231.

Should the photo on the right have the seating as it should? Should the seating be all the way to the rim as in the right photo?

Also, when I run these through the LEE factory crimp die they feel like they bind a bit and feel like they reach a lip, unlike a factory round.

I do appreciate any help anyone can give.

Thank you.



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Both look fine to me. make a small batch of each and see if one shoots better. Then you will know.

Ivan

Any cannelure on those bullets? You would usually crimp to the cannelure and if you don't have one you would crimp over the shoulder of the bullet.

So you would set it at the point where the bullet starts to angle? There is no cannelure on these bullets.


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People have different opinions here's mine:

You need to seat the bullet deep enough to crimp over the shoulder. I'm assuming you use a roll crimp and it may cut into the plating and cause leading.

Unless you are using the exact bullet listed in a load manual you cannot depend on the OAL listed.

I am not a fan of the Lee FCD. I feel it may 'fix' some problems that if loaded properly may not exist. The sizing action of the die may swage a bullet and make it smaller than bore diameter and cause flame cutting and leading.

Revolver copper or plated bullets should have a cannelure with them for proper OAL.

Pistol bullets do not need a canelure on the copper/plated or coated bullets, since they seat on the case rim and OAL is set
by the maker.

Many are using non-can bullets for revolvers these days.
I am old fashioned and use the bullets that you can set at the correct OAL.

It is suggested you use lead load data with plated bullets. Your charge of W231 is way over the current suggested limit from Hodgdon. Since that is true I would not seat the bullet so deep into the case further increasing the pressures. I would be using 1.475" like in the data from Hodgdon.

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Freedom is never free!!
SWCA #3437

There are lots of different opinions here and none of them are 'wrong' because revolver cartridges are very forgiving and can be set a number of ways and still work.

My opinion (using revolver cartridges that were based on use with black powder like the .38/.357, .45 Colt etc.) is that max. length is governed by the length of the cylinder so that the protrusion of the bullet nose doesn't get caught in the cylinder gap, locking the cylinder, and the minimum would be crimped over the bullet shoulder. A cannelure or over the shoulder of the bullet are both good places to crimp. Not so much along the side of the bullets because crimp will be limited in order not to crimp into the bullets itself.

Now, if you get into reloading high pressure cartridges that were developed with smokeless powder in mind (9mm. .40, 10mm etc), you will need to be very sensitive to COAL because with less space in the casing, pressure can build rapidly with each fraction of depth that the bullet seated to.

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"He was kinda funny lookin'"

What brand are they? Xtreme?

What gun (.38 or .357) are you shooting them in?

I use a taper crimp on my plated Xtreme bullets (the cannelures are very shallow anyway). If you have to use a roll crimp die crimp it just enought to remove the case flare. Don't roll crimp it like you would a jacketed bullet or it'll damage the plating.

L-FCDs do that if their TC sizing ring is too small in diameter or you're using an oversized bullet. Again, if you use a taper crimp die (Lyman's is good) you won't have that issue.

Usually in target loads, with plated bullets, I don't feel the OAL" is super critical since it's not a max load, but 1.389" sounds a little short. If you seat too deep with a max load it can be though. 1.455" should be good with your load of 4.2gr. (ref. Hodgdon jacketed data)

When in doubt, seat them a little long.

.

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Waiting for the break of day

I would. Lee used to advertise their factory crimp die as being able to apply a crimp anyplace on a bullet without a cannelure. It seems to me that deforming a bullet simply can't help accuracy.

If the bullet has no cannelure it is my opinion the bullet should be taper crimped, especially if it is a "plated" bullet, because the "plating" is very thin, and a roll crimp may cut through the plating which can cause different problems. I am not a fan of plated bullets, and have never been able to get any of them to shoot very accurately. I always go by the bullet Mfg's OAL recommendation.

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H Richard
SWCA1967 SWHF244

I'd want them crimped over the shoulder of the bullet.

OAL isn't real critical in revolver rounds. as long as the bullet doesn't stick out the end of the cylinder so it can't rotate, and one takes into consideration the reduced case capacity caused by an extremely deep seated bullet, you shouldn't have much problem.

I seat full wadcutters deep enough to crimp over the end of the bullet. More or less flush.

If your loads are in spec I seat my rounds like the one on the right. Are they Berry bullets or X - treme they don't have crimp groove so a med to lite crimp will work.

FWIW, I have loaded both Ranier and Xtreme plated bullets in both 38/357 and 44 spl/mag. I have always used a medium roll crimp, even with no cannelure. I've pulled several, with both a collet puller and a kinetic puller. I have never seen any indications of the copper plating being cracked.

I also purchased 1000 pulled plated bullets from a company that de-mils overstocked ammo. They also appeared to have been roll crimped and I have seen no cracked plating on any of them either - even though you can still easily see the ring/groove from where they were the roll crimped.

When you really look at what is physically going on, a roll crimp only puts pressure on a small ring-shaped area of the bullet's bearing surface at the case mouth. It does not swag down the entire bearing surface. It just crimps a groove into the bearing surface - pretty much creating its own cannelure. When you think about what is actually going on when you do a roll crimp, that makes sense because it only puts pressure on the case mouth - rolling it inward. It doesn't put pressure on the entire portion of the case that is in contact with the bullet's bearing surface.

In fact a taper crimp puts pressure on a lot more of the bearing surface area than a roll crimp. Therefore it seems to me that a taper crimp would swag the bullet diameter more than a roll crimp would. Just my $0.02...

Xtreme recommends using a light taper crimp.

.

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Waiting for the break of day

True, but IIRC what I read on their website, that is their generic recommendation for ALL of their plated bullets, and we all know that what works best for rimless semi-auto cartridges and revolver cartridges are two different things. Especially when it comes to magnum rounds.

The light taper crimp will work for 9mm, 10mm, 380acp, 45acp, etc., and it may even work for the 38 specials. But for anything loaded in the magnum range - especially in lighter weight revolvers - a light taper crimp probably ain't gonna cut it.

I'd even be leery of a light taper crimp in 38 special if they were being shot out of an airweight. I'd for sure be leery of any +P loading with a light taper crimp. Bullet creep locking up your revolver can take all the fun right out of your day.

I agree, partially. Unless you're using their (Xtreme's) Heavy Plated bullets rated to 1500fps their standard plated bullets are limited to 1200fps, which is what I use mostly & aren't intended for magnum loads.

In my 35oz. 327TRR8 I load their 158gr RNFP right up to the 1200fps limit & don't get jump crimp using a taper crimp.

In my 31oz. 325TR I load their 230gr HP in the +P range & no jump crimp with a tamper crimp. (I like their Heavy Plated for 45AR revolver as it's .452" while the standard plated is .451").

I DO get jump crimp using 185gr JHP in 45 Super loads using a taper crimp in the 325TR, but not the 625PC.

In my 3-1/2" bbl. 500ES (the lightest 500 S&W) I deep seat (to the ogive) my plated bullets & taper crimp them & don't get jump crimp.

All the above are using moderate speed powders, not slow powders which absolutely need a roll crimp to ensure good ignition.

Xtreme doesn't make (don't know why not) a Heavy Plated bullet for 41 or 44 Mag. but with their standard plated bullets, & a taper crimp, I don't get jump crimp in either caliber.

Taper crimp definitely doesn't work in all situations but does for many.

Serious loads using bullets with a cannelure absolutely get a good roll crimp.

.

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Waiting for the break of day

That all sounds good, and like you've really got it all worked out.

FWIW, I personally don't load a lot of hot magnums and there are lots of recipes that are below Xtreme's recommended 1200fps speed "limit" (which I feel is very conservative). If I were loading some 1800 fps barn burners then that would be a different story - and I wouldn't be using plated bullets.

Personally I also don't like futzing around with using different dies and different crimps for different loads. If a roll crimp works and is acceptable for one load with their plated bullets then I see no reason not to use it for all of them. Their sister company Freedom Munitions loads Xtreme bullets with a light roll crimp. I realize they may be using the heavy plated bullets, but if the roll crimp I've been using doesn't crack the regular light plating (which I have already confirmed it doesn't) and they load them with a roll crimp then I can't see any good reason not to use a roll crimp.

I try to keep things simple. YMMV...