.431 diameter jacketed soft points in a 44 Magnum?

muddocktor · Nov 24, 2016

I was just looking at the Rose Distribution website, looking to possibly order some Zero brand jacketed bullets and see they are now offering 44 Mag jacketed bullets for sale now. But, their website says that they are .431 in diameter instead of the more normal diameter of .429-.430 for jacketed 44 Mag bullets.

So, what I am wondering is if you all think this might be a problem for loading and shooting? I know I would have to work up a load because of the larger bullet diameter, but I'm wondering if having a jacketed bullet being .001-.0015 larger in diameter than the load data books and online sources show will be totally off. If they were lead I wouldn't sweat it, but these are jacketed soft points.

MichiganScott · Nov 24, 2016

It could be a typo in the description. Web designers are usually not gun people. You could probably get away with loading them if you follow the advice of starting low and working your way up even if the description is correct. You would not get to normal .44 mag velocities before the pressure got excessive.

Nevada Ed · Nov 24, 2016

I would call or E-mail them to find what the DIA. is
before buying any.

They may be .430 "seconds" and have to be marked larger?

Dobie406 · Nov 24, 2016

I bought 1K of these, loaded and shot maybe 300 so far with no problems up to mid level loads using Unique, Power Pistol and No.5.
I bought them because I have two .44 Specials, a Blackhawk and a new to me 24-3. The 24-3 has larger throats(a .429 jacketed bullet fall right through and a .430 cast goes pretty easy too) so I decided to try these (they are .431)

reddog81 · Nov 24, 2016

Sounds like a rifle bullet. For some reason the pistol and rifle SAAMI specs differ. I believe the rifle bore is supposed to be .431 or .432.

I'd be hesitant to use the .431 bullets in my revolver unless the throats were that large. The bullet is going to be swaged down to the throats size before it hits the barrel.

Alk8944 · Nov 24, 2016

The SAAMI Handgun standard for bullet diameter in .44 Magnum is .4320", +.0000"/-.0060". .44 Special is .4325", +.000/-.006". .431" is within specification for either cartridge. Why would you be hesitant to use .431" bullets, lack of knowledge???

FWIW the SAAMI standard for Rifle is .4320", +.0000"/-.0030".

reddog81 · Nov 24, 2016

The SAAMI website says .429 bore diameter for handguns with .432 being the diameter of the lead Bullets to use.

Rifle bore diameter is .431.

.431 will work but I'd buy .429 if shooting in a handgun.

rays44 · Nov 25, 2016

Dobie406 said:
I bought 1K of these, loaded and shot maybe 300 so far with no problems up to mid level loads using Unique, Power Pistol and No.5.
I bought them because I have two .44 Specials, a Blackhawk and a new to me 24-3. The 24-3 has larger throats(a .429 jacketed bullet fall right through and a .430 cast goes pretty easy too) so I decided to try these (they are .431)

Bingo! You need to know the throat diameter. Wouldn't hurt to know the groove diameter as well.
I have several .45 long colt revolvers that exceed .457 in the throat. You have to know your pistol.

Nemo288 · Nov 25, 2016

rays44 said:
Bingo! You need to know the throat diameter. Wouldn't hurt to know the groove diameter as well.
I have several .45 long colt revolvers that exceed .457 in the throat. You have to know your pistol.

Ding Ding Ding! We have a winner!
44 throat diameters are all over the place.
Maybe not as wild as the 45 but nearly so.
I have 44's made in the 1980's by both S&W and Ruger that have cylinder throats going up to .433"!
After years of being naive about this I switched to the largest cast bullets I could find (usually .432) and accuracy went way up.
Those .432 bullets also are perfect for the 444 which as has been stated likes those larger bullets of all construction.
I have never seen jacketed bullets that large before.
I'll have to get some!
Do you know how thick the jackets are on those big boys?
44 rifle bullets usually have thicker jackets.
Guys like Hawk bullets make them with a couple of thicknesses.
Dedicated 44 rifle bullets are kind of rare.
Now if they have fairly thin jackets then they might be perfect for older revolvers with those big throats.
Looks like some additional investigation might be indicated.

Dang.
Just looked at the website mentioned and you have to buy 1K of these minimum for $137.20.
They LOOK like a nice well constructed bullet but I would like to see a cross section and a designed impact velocity number.
They should at the very least make a nice 44 mag carbine or reduced 444 load, both good for deer.

BLUEDOT37 · Nov 26, 2016

Zero Bullets

Nemo288 said:
Just looked at the website mentioned and you have to buy 1K of these minimum for $137.20. They LOOK like a nice well constructed bullet...

Zero makes some pretty nice bullets for the money. Shipping is included in Zero's website's pricing. Powder Valley carries Zero bullets, usually in smaller quantities, shipping not included.

At the Wanenmacher Gun show a few weeks ago Alabama Shooters Supply brought up a compliment of Zero bullets, as usual. They had these bagged in 250 qty. I didn't want to make the day's walk any harder so I waited till I was getting ready to leave to buy them. Of course they were all sold out.

Grabbed some of their 125gr JTC-HP (they just call it JHP-Conical) to try instead. Very consistent quality/dimensions/weight.

I like their 40 caliber 165 JHPs, & .45s in 185gr JHP & 230gr JHP.

OP, I was surprised they were sized .431" too. I wouldn't use them in my 396NG with .4285" throats.

.

twodog max · Nov 26, 2016

I got a couple thousand of these and shot some just yesterday out of the Model 69. These were full house 296 loads. They shot just fine with no pressure signs and the cases just fell out of the cylinder. I have loaded a bunch at mid level magnum and they shot great too. I think these bullets are sort of "soft" and on impact seem to separate jacket and core quickly. For my needs they are good bullets.

Nemo288 · Nov 26, 2016

twodog max said:
I think these bullets are sort of "soft" and on impact seem to separate jacket and core quickly. For my needs they are good bullets.

Then they are unlikely to perform well at higher speed.
And one reason they are $.14 apiece.
Simple swaged cup and core, no bonding.
For that price they are still a good deal but I would not shoot any game bigger than deer with them.
Also good for practice and plinking in the 444 at magnum velocity.
I'll still be getting some but it is good to know that information.
For comparison, a truely bonded 44 rifle bullet designed for impact at Mach 2 is the Woodleigh weldcore 444. (.430")
They cost $1.24 apiece and are the most expensive 44 bullet I know of.
The Swift A Frames aren't too far behind in price but are .429".

muddocktor · Nov 26, 2016

Thanks for all the replies everyone. I've used their 357 bullets, but not any others and I was hesitant about the larger diameter on them out of my 629-3. My 629 is very accurate with regular .4295-.430 diameter jacketed bullets as well as .430 diameter lead bullets. I ended up ordering me some 240 grain RNFP coated bullets from MBC instead, as I didn't need to buy 1000 this time and the fact that I was ordering a bunch of 357 and 9MM bullets at the same time (saving on shipping costs).

One I wish I could talk Sierra into producing commercially are the 165 grain JHP bullets they make for Cor Bon. I had bought some production overrun stock of these from Midway back in 2013 and they are so much fun to shoot. You can load them hot and they still don't beat you up too badly.

twodog max · Nov 26, 2016

I have used these bullets in the Model 69 and my 29-3 without problems. For just shooting practice and play around bullets they are all I want. For serious hunting I would stick with the 240 XTP's but really not to much of a need for those.

twodog max · Dec 1, 2016

I measured some random samples of these bullets today. The were all .429 same as Hornady XTP. So they may be listed as .431 but mine are not.

Nemo288 · Dec 1, 2016

Dang.
I was kind of hoping they actually were .431"
Weird, rare, but useful at least to me.
Now they are just a pretty cheap jacketed bullet.

reddog81 · Dec 1, 2016

I always measure my commercial bullets. It's not uncommon for them to be off by .002 or so. I had some Hornady swaged SWC's that can in a box marked .430 but actually measured .427. They would just fall into the case.

BLUEDOT37 · Dec 1, 2016

reddog81 said:
I had some Hornady swaged SWC's that can in a box marked .430 but actually measured .427. They would just fall into the case.

I had the same problem with some Berry's for .44. They were so undersized that they'd jump crimp even in a 44 Spcl. Ended up trashing the whole box of 200.

Zero has been pretty consistent though their .45ACP 230gr JHP bullet is always a hair smaller at the base than the crimp point, but it's not an issue. All the other calibers I've bought from them have uniform diameters.

.

Nemo288 · Dec 2, 2016

Just got my Woodleigh Weldcores.
They look exactly like mini versions of their 600 NE bullet.
If they are off by more than .0005" I will be surprised (and disappointed).
Ya get what ya pay for (most of the time).
Then again if I order .431" bullets and they turn out to be .429" can I get my money back?

Nemo288 · Dec 2, 2016

BLUEDOT37 said:
I had the same problem with some Berry's for .44. They were so undersized that they'd jump crimp even in a 44 Spcl. Ended up trashing the whole box of 200.

That's why I like the Rainier 240's (FP and HP) as my plated bullets.
Consistent dimensions, weight, and have a slight hollow base that helps with obturation.
Very accurate in my 696's (that have different throats).

.431 diameter jacketed soft points in a 44 Magnum?

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