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02-23-2017, 12:55 AM
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Misfire Today- You'll NEVER Guess Why
Shooting my 657PC 41 Magnum l had a MISFIRE...
Never say Never, but l got one today at the range...
Tried the RD 3 times. Still NOTHING. When something
like this happens l get a bit rattled.. At least NO KABOOM..
l come home and get out the old bullet puller and disassemble
the round.. Out falls bullet and powder. Leaving primed case..
Next l knock out the primer.. No charred or blackened primer..
Still nice and shiny inside...Looking closer l don't see the yellow
primer mix.. Taking vise grips and paper clip l pry the little
anvil out.. l cant believe what l see.. Primer cup is EMPTY..
NO PRIMER MIX.. Not seen this one in 40yrs of reloading..
They were CCI 300 LP primers purchased back in the Fall..
Guess l will give CCl a call tomorrow. Maybe post a pic...
Anyone on the forum ever had EMPTY primer????
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02-23-2017, 01:11 AM
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I've had misfires, but those rounds ended up in my 5 gallon .38 special bucket to be pulled apart at a later date.
From what I've read on this forum and others, an empty primer does occur from time to time. Don't sweat it and keep on loading!
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02-23-2017, 01:53 AM
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I pulled apart a misfire Win Ranger 45 Auto round that my SIL had happen to him and the cup only had 10-20% of the primer cup having any priming compound and none under the anvil area. So yes, it does happen.
EDIT: Moral of that story is that even factory ammo can and will malfunction.
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02-23-2017, 02:01 AM
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I have had a primer with no anvil
Let's face it....no company on the planet can produce 100% perfect items 100% of the time.
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02-23-2017, 02:16 AM
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Its rare with quality primers but happens.
At 2015 idpa nats, i had a round with no powder? Factory Cci Blaser brass.
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02-23-2017, 02:19 AM
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40 years and this is a first, seems like you had a pretty good run. Chalk it up to the fickle finger of fate.
bob
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02-23-2017, 03:09 AM
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I once found a Winchester 5.56mm with the primer seated upside down, with the open primer cup facing out. It came out of a factory fresh case of ammo.
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02-23-2017, 04:02 AM
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I seem to remember a Bianchi Cup event where the match was decided due to the lack of a flash hole in the case of a factory loaded cartridge used by the 2nd place finisher.
Have not yet run across an empty primer cup but have lost count of the number of .22 rimfire rounds that had no priming compound!
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02-23-2017, 10:45 AM
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Why would you call CCI over one lousy primer? Do you expect them to send a replacement?
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02-23-2017, 11:22 AM
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Have on hand a factory loaded 45-70 with perfect primer indent, did not fire.
Intend to take it apart some day.
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02-23-2017, 11:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SMSgt
Why would you call CCI over one lousy primer? Do you expect them to send a replacement?
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What if it were a shot on a trophy White tail?
Or a shot to save the LIFE of a family member?
''One lousy Primer"?? You can bet I WILL!!!
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02-23-2017, 11:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K Frame Keith
I once found a Winchester 5.56mm with the primer seated upside down, with the open primer cup facing out. It came out of a factory fresh case of ammo.
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Back in 2000, two friends and I went to Tanzania on a Cape Buffalo/Plains Game hunt.
On our last day there, the top guy at the camp asked if we would like to assist in culling some zebras (  ) Of course we were happy to assist. Later in the day, we ran across a few and my buddy lined up his Winchester M70 chambered in .375 H&H on a nice zebra, pulled the trigger and all we heard was pffffttt..! I had him put his rifle against a tree as it sounded like a hang-fire, and finished up on the zeb with my rifle. When the shooting was over, we checked his rifle, and low and behold the round had a primer loaded backwards  This was with factory new Federal Premium Safari ammo, which cost (at that time) about $80/box.
Funny that we got half way around the world, hunted for 10 days, etc., and it was never noticed until he was in the moment.
It's just a good thing he wasn't facing down a buffalo at the time....!
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02-23-2017, 12:39 PM
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I'm glad the primer didn't suddenly wake up and surprise you while you were poking at it... 
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02-23-2017, 12:57 PM
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I'd imagine many of us have seen a video on the making of 22 rimfire ammo that seem to be coming out like a machinegun on steroids I can only imagine what the primer machine is spitting them out at!
Stuff happens!
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02-23-2017, 01:46 PM
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Ray Chapman
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaymoore
I seem to remember a Bianchi Cup event where the match was decided due to the lack of a flash hole in the case of a factory loaded cartridge used by the 2nd place finisher.
Have not yet run across an empty primer cup but have lost count of the number of .22 rimfire rounds that had no priming compound!
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There very well could have been a Bianchi Cup match as you described, but I will bet that the stories got mixed up since the original Bianchi Cup was held at Ray Chapman's Training facility in Missouri. The real story is true; Ray Chapman had won the world championship in USPSA/IPSC competition and the next year was in the running to win his second. IIRC, the match was being held in South Africa. He was sponsored by Winchester/Western Ammo and they furnished all his 45 acp ammo. In the very last event Ray was within a few shots of winning when he had a failure to fire. The time it took him to clear the malfunction was all it took for him to drop to second place and to lose to the first place guy. Later Ray took the offending round and broke it apart. It had a live primer, good powder, correct everything except there was NO flash hole punched between the primer cup and the powder chamber. Ray carried that piece of brass around in his pocket and pulled it out and showed it to everyone. As said before, "No manufacture has ever made 100% of anything absolutely perfect." Ray made it part of his training and told us many times, "Be prepared for anything in a gunfight".
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02-23-2017, 02:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sw282
What if it were a shot on a trophy White tail?
Or a shot to save the LIFE of a family member?
''One lousy Primer"?? You can bet I WILL!!!
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I thought this was going to be a Boycott CCI Thread!
Well this reminds me of First World Problems, I hope you recover!  
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Last edited by Rule3; 02-23-2017 at 02:02 PM.
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02-23-2017, 02:26 PM
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Once in my 30 years of handloading, I found a Winchester small rifle primer with nothing but the cup. I was filling primer tubes at the time and caught it before it went in the tube. I was going to tell Winchester about it but it really wasn't worth the time. Kept it as a souvenir.
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SWCA 1821
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02-23-2017, 02:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sw282
What if it were a shot on a trophy White tail?
Or a shot to save the LIFE of a family member?
''One lousy Primer"?? You can bet I WILL!!!
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Trophy deer? Don't care.
What if the guy managed to get that gun of you and goes to pull the trigger and nothing happens, giving you enough time to do something!?!?!
Lots of what ifs. Practically endless!
Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk
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02-23-2017, 02:59 PM
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this is why I carry a revolver. many a man has died from slide racking.
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02-23-2017, 03:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sw282
Shooting my 657PC 41 Magnum l had a MISFIRE...
Never say Never, but l got one today at the range...
Tried the RD 3 times. Still NOTHING. When something
like this happens l get a bit rattled.. At least NO KABOOM..
l come home and get out the old bullet puller and disassemble
the round.. Out falls bullet and powder. Leaving primed case..
Next l knock out the primer.. No charred or blackened primer..
Still nice and shiny inside...Looking closer l don't see the yellow
primer mix.. Taking vise grips and paper clip l pry the little
anvil out.. l cant believe what l see.. Primer cup is EMPTY..
NO PRIMER MIX.. Not seen this one in 40yrs of reloading..
They were CCI 300 LP primers purchased back in the Fall..
Guess l will give CCl a call tomorrow. Maybe post a pic...
Anyone on the forum ever had EMPTY primer????
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Yep, one time, at least twenty years ago. That's why I inspect them on the flipper BEFORE i load them into the tube. 
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02-23-2017, 03:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SmithNut
Back in 2000, two friends and I went to Tanzania on a Cape Buffalo/Plains Game hunt.
On our last day there, the top guy at the camp asked if we would like to assist in culling some zebras ( ) Of course we were happy to assist. Later in the day, we ran across a few and my buddy lined up his Winchester M70 chambered in .375 H&H on a nice zebra, pulled the trigger and all we heard was pffffttt..! I had him put his rifle against a tree as it sounded like a hang-fire, and finished up on the zeb with my rifle. When the shooting was over, we checked his rifle, and low and behold the round had a primer loaded backwards This was with factory new Federal Premium Safari ammo, which cost (at that time) about $80/box.
Funny that we got half way around the world, hunted for 10 days, etc., and it was never noticed until he was in the moment.
It's just a good thing he wasn't facing down a buffalo at the time....! |
Makes a good case for inspecting your ammo, doesn't it?
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02-23-2017, 03:47 PM
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Dumped a box of Federal primers into a primer tray and found a bunch of priming compound. It was very explosive, have not used Federal Primers since.
Happens quite a bit with 22 ammo, don't usually think much of it, it is the way too hot rounds that worry me.
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02-23-2017, 07:02 PM
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I think the amount of defective ammo produced by any means is highly exaggerated in many minds. I doubt I've had more than five in my lifetime--including reloads, commercial loads, shotgun, rifle, handgun, center fire, rim fire. Heck I've bought more cans of beer that the pop top failed to open than that!
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02-23-2017, 08:49 PM
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Some years ago, I had a .30-'06 military round with no flash hole. That's not supposed to happen either. I also once had a function test .30-'06 round, no powder but charged with what looked like fine white sand. It looked like any other round.
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02-23-2017, 09:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M E Morrison
Makes a good case for inspecting your ammo, doesn't it? |
Yes, 'sactly what I told him back then, and about every time we talk about the Africa trip these days...
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02-23-2017, 11:08 PM
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[QUOTE=sw282;1394786Anyone on the forum ever had EMPTY primer????[/QUOTE]
Several years ago, the club where I shoot PPC had placed a very large primer order. IIRC, somewhere around 60k-70k, for the PPC guys to split
That particular LOT of Federal SPP produced approx. 45 bad/dead/no compound primers. I know 45 out of 65k! But still. One guy had 3 bad in one flat of 100....during a match! I had 3 bad out of 1k. I've also had WSP fall out of three 9mm cases. When I put CCI's in them, they were good to go.
So yeah, I have seen it.
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Last edited by Ceapea; 02-23-2017 at 11:11 PM.
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02-23-2017, 11:26 PM
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For several years now I have more faith in my hand loads than factory stuff.
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02-24-2017, 06:20 PM
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I've seen an anvil fall out of the cup just by the normal shaking of the primers in the primer tray.Don't remember the brand though.And loading over 10K a year for over 40 years,I consider the ratio to be pretty good.
Qc
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02-24-2017, 06:24 PM
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It really pays to look them over in the flip tray, both sides.
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02-24-2017, 06:56 PM
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I lost a skeet match due to a bad factory Win. AA target load. I called Winchester and they had me give the shell to one of their reps at the next match. They gave me a free case of shells.
Now for the kicker!!! The very next month I lost first place (and a fair amount of money) in a sporting clays match on another bad AA...OUT OF THE FREE CASE THEY GAVE ME
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02-24-2017, 07:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed Fowler
It really pays to look them over in the flip tray, both sides.
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I'll at least see the anvil side in the flip tray. I'll see the other side
when checking with a case gauge or barrel.
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02-24-2017, 07:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 29aholic
I lost a skeet match due to a bad factory Win. AA target load. I called Winchester and they had me give the shell to one of their reps at the next match. They gave me a free case of shells.
Now for the kicker!!! The very next month I lost first place (and a fair amount of money) in a sporting clays match on another bad AA...OUT OF THE FREE CASE THEY GAVE ME |
Perfect definition of ''consistency''!Sorry for those lost matches.
Qc
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02-24-2017, 08:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sw282
Shooting my 657PC 41 Magnum l had a MISFIRE...
Never say Never, but l got one today at the range...
Tried the RD 3 times. Still NOTHING. When something
like this happens l get a bit rattled.. At least NO KABOOM..
l come home and get out the old bullet puller and disassemble
the round.. Out falls bullet and powder. Leaving primed case..
Next l knock out the primer.. No charred or blackened primer..
Still nice and shiny inside...Looking closer l don't see the yellow
primer mix.. Taking vise grips and paper clip l pry the little
anvil out.. l cant believe what l see.. Primer cup is EMPTY..
NO PRIMER MIX.. Not seen this one in 40yrs of reloading..
They were CCI 300 LP primers purchased back in the Fall..
Guess l will give CCl a call tomorrow. Maybe post a pic...
Anyone on the forum ever had EMPTY primer????
|
Well it appears you are not alone and now I feel better too. I had something of a similar nature happen to me a number of years ago and when I disassembled the faulty round I found a completely empty Primer Cup. Viewing it with a magnifying glass you could see it had never been scored when the anvil should have been. I just considered it a Friday Primer. I check the primers in the tray a LOT closer since then, but have not found another in over 6,000+ rounds.
Last edited by USN-RET; 02-24-2017 at 08:19 PM.
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