Going to be doing some longer range (50-100) yard shooting with 38/357 and wondering if anyone has any experience? I've heard lighter weight bullets pushed hard do better because of less drop and also heard that heavier weight bullets do better because of stability. So far all I have tried is Berrys Plated 158 Target Hp with 7.5gr HS-6 which I'm guessing should give around 1000 fps in a 6" barrel. Would going to a jacketed bullet and pushing the extra 300 or so fps improve accuracy? Not sure what "acceptable" accuracy would be with open sights by most shooter's standards and quite sure my guns are capable of better accuracy than I can give. Going to a jacketed bullet would also double the cost so I can practice a lot more with plated which would be a plus. Any advice or suggestions would be appreciated
Long Range .357 Bullet Weight Question
- Thread starter Eddietruett
- Start date
Register to hide this ad
A faster projectile will shoot flatter, not necessarily more accurately.
50-100 yards is not long range for a 357 Magnum. In the old days of Metallic Silhouette our shots were at 25, 50, 100 and 200 yards. So we had to know our holdover/under at each distance.
Projectile choice depends on what you are doing? Are we just talking about paper punching? Or are you getting ready for hunting?
If it is the latter, you want to choose a projectile/load that has a similar trajectory as your hunting round.
Traditionally, most plated offerings are not super accurate.
I would probably be loading a 125 grain, non-HP projectile.
In the olden days I would be choosing a JSP like the IMIs pictured below, but today we can select a polymer or powder coated projectile for a lower cost.
The coated projectiles can be pushed at almost any velocity. They do not have velocity limits like plated projectiles. 2000 FPS from a 357 Magnum rifle is not a problem for a coated projectile.
50-100 yards is not long range for a 357 Magnum. In the old days of Metallic Silhouette our shots were at 25, 50, 100 and 200 yards. So we had to know our holdover/under at each distance.
Projectile choice depends on what you are doing? Are we just talking about paper punching? Or are you getting ready for hunting?
If it is the latter, you want to choose a projectile/load that has a similar trajectory as your hunting round.
Traditionally, most plated offerings are not super accurate.
I would probably be loading a 125 grain, non-HP projectile.
In the olden days I would be choosing a JSP like the IMIs pictured below, but today we can select a polymer or powder coated projectile for a lower cost.
The coated projectiles can be pushed at almost any velocity. They do not have velocity limits like plated projectiles. 2000 FPS from a 357 Magnum rifle is not a problem for a coated projectile.
OP
I'm just punching paper and ringing gongs. I'm not steady enough any more to trust myself hunting with a handgun. Berrys says 1200 fps is max and I don't want to deal with leading. Most of my guns like 158gr much better than the 125gr so that's what I've been trying so far. I was just wandering if pushing either weight bullet a lot faster was going to increase the accuracy any appreciable amount. When you are referring to a coated bullet, I'm assuming you mean like the ones sold by Missouri Bullet, etc? I have not tried any of these as I was under the impression that leading became a problem at higher velocity like the plated. I get really good accuracy from the Berrys Plated Target HP and the HBWC at "normal" distances up to 25 yards so haven't seen a need to try the coated. But if they are normally more accurate than the plated, I'll certainly give some a try.
When I got my first K frame, 19-5, 357 Magnum, I went to the rifle range.
There was a large steel Pig sitting at the 100 yard marker.
I started with a 158gr lead 38 special and put the iron sights on it.
At the shot, the bullet hit the dirt in front of it, about 20 yards short.
My next try was with a 110gr +P loading, aimed just over its back.......
this round hit in the dirt about ten feet short.
Time to try a little better ammo for that long pistol distance.
I loaded a 125gr JHP and held dead center and squeezed one off.
The slap of the bullet was almost instant. No pause, no hold over, just right there, right now.
Have fun.
There was a large steel Pig sitting at the 100 yard marker.
I started with a 158gr lead 38 special and put the iron sights on it.
At the shot, the bullet hit the dirt in front of it, about 20 yards short.
My next try was with a 110gr +P loading, aimed just over its back.......
this round hit in the dirt about ten feet short.
Time to try a little better ammo for that long pistol distance.
I loaded a 125gr JHP and held dead center and squeezed one off.
The slap of the bullet was almost instant. No pause, no hold over, just right there, right now.
Have fun.
ArchAngelCD
Moderator, SWCA Member, Absent Comrade
For 50 to 100 yards target work with a 357 Magnum revolver the 158gr coated bullets will work very well. How do I know? I use them lol...
Like said above, 50-100 yards isn't all that long a distance for the .357 and velocity doesn't mean accuracy. You can use that HS-6 or use 2400, AA#9 or W296 for loading the Missouri Bullets.
Like said above, 50-100 yards isn't all that long a distance for the .357 and velocity doesn't mean accuracy. You can use that HS-6 or use 2400, AA#9 or W296 for loading the Missouri Bullets.
S&W SS Revolvers
Member
I like the 110 gr. in the ol' 686-3 .357...they are fast and accurate. Picked some up at SG Ammo very reasonable.
ArchAngelCD
Moderator, SWCA Member, Absent Comrade
IMO using a 110gr bullet in the .357 Magnum is a waste of its capability. If you want to use a 110gr bullet you can shoot a 9mm. That's the beauty of the .357 Mag, the ability to shoot 158gr, 170gr and 180gr bullets.
As for velocity, you only need what you need and no more.
Round nose..
Round nose would be best or the highest ballistic coefficient you can find. I think I'd try jacketed or hard cast coated if the plated bullets don't work. No reason why they shouldn't.
You MAY get more accuracy by keeping the load subsonic, even though it may have a huge drop. This would tend to say that the heavier bullet will carry at the lower velocities.
One thing about bullet drop due to gravity is that it is predictable.
Some casters make 'match grade' bullets.
Round nose would be best or the highest ballistic coefficient you can find. I think I'd try jacketed or hard cast coated if the plated bullets don't work. No reason why they shouldn't.
You MAY get more accuracy by keeping the load subsonic, even though it may have a huge drop. This would tend to say that the heavier bullet will carry at the lower velocities.
One thing about bullet drop due to gravity is that it is predictable.
Some casters make 'match grade' bullets.
Hornady 200gr FTX boolits are the current favorite 357s for long range
work...Used to knock down those steel IHMSA Rams @ 200meters in
Big Bore Class.. Fueled by either lilgun or 296 powder..lignited by a
Small rifle magnum primer.. 200gr FTX has a b/c of 300. Velocity 1200fps
from a 10 1/2" Freedom Arms barrel.. However...Surgery is required to
each and every little FTX boolit.. The RedTip MUST be removed.. Boolits
are too long with the tip in.. They remind me of Sierra MatchKings with
Tip removed.. I think published data is used..Don't know how these will
work in a S&W revolver because l don't know FA cyl length.
Ultimate long range load for 357mag uses 250gr .358" Speer rifle boolit
In 38 Special WADCUTTER cases and Winchester 680 powder, SRM primers.
These would fit in the cyls in a Model 27/28 or Colt PYTHON. Wadcutter
cases were used because of their higher internal volume.. Cases were only
good for a couple of firings.. Those PYTHONs and Model 27s had a rough life too..
BTW.. WW680 powder is gone.. Pythons too
work...Used to knock down those steel IHMSA Rams @ 200meters in
Big Bore Class.. Fueled by either lilgun or 296 powder..lignited by a
Small rifle magnum primer.. 200gr FTX has a b/c of 300. Velocity 1200fps
from a 10 1/2" Freedom Arms barrel.. However...Surgery is required to
each and every little FTX boolit.. The RedTip MUST be removed.. Boolits
are too long with the tip in.. They remind me of Sierra MatchKings with
Tip removed.. I think published data is used..Don't know how these will
work in a S&W revolver because l don't know FA cyl length.
Ultimate long range load for 357mag uses 250gr .358" Speer rifle boolit
In 38 Special WADCUTTER cases and Winchester 680 powder, SRM primers.
These would fit in the cyls in a Model 27/28 or Colt PYTHON. Wadcutter
cases were used because of their higher internal volume.. Cases were only
good for a couple of firings.. Those PYTHONs and Model 27s had a rough life too..
BTW.. WW680 powder is gone.. Pythons too
elpac3
Member
Consider using the 170 grain Keith SWC with 12 grains of 2400. I bought mine at Rim Rock. Great shooting bullet.
nitesite
Member
The .45-70 never performed with light bullets when shooting at distance.
Neither should your .357 Magnum handgun.
If it were me I would be in the 160~180 grain range and learn them well.
Neither should your .357 Magnum handgun.
If it were me I would be in the 160~180 grain range and learn them well.
@OP,
Back when I was younger (about 40 years ago) and trying my hand at IHMSA handgun metallic silhouette, I used a S&W Model 27 with an 8 3/8" barrel firing a handload of 296 behind a Speer .358 half jacketed hollow point semi-wadcutter. I had respectable success with this bullet on the rams at 200m (c.220 yards). Unfortunately, that bullet is no longer available.
Personally, if I could find those matches again within less than a day's drive, I would try either a 158gr JHP, or possibly a 150-160gr hardcast gas checked SWC out to 200+ yards.
Back when I was younger (about 40 years ago) and trying my hand at IHMSA handgun metallic silhouette, I used a S&W Model 27 with an 8 3/8" barrel firing a handload of 296 behind a Speer .358 half jacketed hollow point semi-wadcutter. I had respectable success with this bullet on the rams at 200m (c.220 yards). Unfortunately, that bullet is no longer available.
Personally, if I could find those matches again within less than a day's drive, I would try either a 158gr JHP, or possibly a 150-160gr hardcast gas checked SWC out to 200+ yards.
I have had decent success with a Blackhawk, 180 gr wfn and a homemade lube. I like softer bullets for this maybe cast 50-50 lead to Wheel Weights. It would be hard to find a commercial caster that uses the same alloy.
stykshooter
Member
Several years ago I did extensive testing with various 686 revolvers, both iron sighted and scoped at 100 yards. The most accurate load that I tested was a 140 grain jacketed hollow point seated over top of a maximum charge of WW 296 powder. Any other load was a very distant second place. I shot some pretty amazing groups at 100 yards with these loads and hands down it has been the most accurate .357 load I have shot out of a dozen different revolvers. It is stout, but accurate. I keep a 6” 686 sighted in for this load at 100 yards just to knock over 8” steel plates at that distance.
In testing the various bullets I was surprised to find that the Remington 140 grain semi jacketed scalloped edge HP was the most accurate bullet in my loads. At the time I could buy those things very cheaply as bulk bullets from several different suppliers. I can remember buying them on sale for about $9.00 a hundred. Sadly, I haven’t seen them for sale in several years and I don’t know that Remington is still producing them. I have had almost as good of results with the 140 grain Hornady XTP that I have been using in that load recently.
In testing the various bullets I was surprised to find that the Remington 140 grain semi jacketed scalloped edge HP was the most accurate bullet in my loads. At the time I could buy those things very cheaply as bulk bullets from several different suppliers. I can remember buying them on sale for about $9.00 a hundred. Sadly, I haven’t seen them for sale in several years and I don’t know that Remington is still producing them. I have had almost as good of results with the 140 grain Hornady XTP that I have been using in that load recently.
Phish
Member
Nothing short of 158gr or better yet 180gr Hornady xtp are super accurate in my 686+ with burris 2x scope i can easily put them at 2-3" using 2400 powder. Velocity doesnt make an accurate loading.
+1 with post 7 & 15;
I had my best accuracy with the lightest bullet being the 140gr XTP.
This larger bullet weight is also easier on the revolver being lower
in the fps and having to use less powder, is a win, win, condition.
I had my best accuracy with the lightest bullet being the 140gr XTP.
This larger bullet weight is also easier on the revolver being lower
in the fps and having to use less powder, is a win, win, condition.
If you want to shoot jacketed, zero bullets are the way to go. These are cheaper than plated and competitive with most cast.
Roze Distribution: 38 SPECIAL (.357 DIAMETER)
Missouri Bullet Co offers a good selection of coated .38/357 bullets.
Missouri Bullet Company
RimRock's 170 gr Keiths mention above are also a good option for a cast bullet
.357 Keith SWC-FB 170 gr. per 500
I've had great luck with a 170gr Keith over 11.0gr of A2400. It chronos 1,150 fps in a 5 1/2" Freedom Arms M97. It's easy shooting and accurate. We were hitting an 8 x 14 (Portrait Orientation) steel plate offhand at 95 yds with good regularity while testing those loads.
Can't image much more tha 1,100 + needed or desired for your application.
FWIW,
Paul
Roze Distribution: 38 SPECIAL (.357 DIAMETER)
Missouri Bullet Co offers a good selection of coated .38/357 bullets.
Missouri Bullet Company
RimRock's 170 gr Keiths mention above are also a good option for a cast bullet
.357 Keith SWC-FB 170 gr. per 500
I've had great luck with a 170gr Keith over 11.0gr of A2400. It chronos 1,150 fps in a 5 1/2" Freedom Arms M97. It's easy shooting and accurate. We were hitting an 8 x 14 (Portrait Orientation) steel plate offhand at 95 yds with good regularity while testing those loads.
Can't image much more tha 1,100 + needed or desired for your application.
FWIW,
Paul
