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.38Spl - reversing 147gr. bullets and using as wadcutters?

Gryff

Gryff

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I have a quantity of Black Bullet 147gr. 9mm truncated cone bullets that are out of spec. They measure .358 in diameter, so they have been causing feeding/extraction issues in the 9mm semi-auto that for which they were intended.

What are the thoughts of reversing them and using them as 147gr. wadcutters for .38 Special? The intent would be to re-purpose what are currently useless bullets into .38 rounds that can be used for casual, low-power range shooting.

My current .38Spl load is 3.5gr of HP38 under 160gr. coated lead bullets (a low-recoil competition load for IDPA). When I use the setup as it stands, my press seats the reversed 147gr. bullets to a OAL of 1.156 with 0.0167" of the flat end (original base before reversing) of the bullet above the top of the case mouth (see pic). The Hodgdon's website for HP38/148gr LHBWC bullets lists an OAL of 1.16 which confuses me because I always see wadcutters loaded flush with the mouth of the case (so it should be a 1.15 OAL), but nonetheless is pretty close to the specified length.

So the question...given that I am at the low end of the Hodgdon recommended load for a 148gr. wadcutter (3.5g grains start - 4.0 grains max), is this experiment a dangerous idea for any reason?

The only issue that crosses my mind is the different shape inside the case of the reversed truncated cone bullet (instead of being a cylinder-shape like a wadcutter). But I would think that any issues would manifest more as an accuracy issue rather than an over-pressure concern.

So, looking for input from people who have played with uncommon revolver loadings.

147wadcutter.jpg
 
Instead why not buy a Lee .356 diameter bullet sizer for your press, re-size to .356 and shoot them in your 9mm that they were intended for?

This is what happens with bullet casting companies that coat bullets and don't size them after coating! What you have found is not at all unusual!
 
Alk8944 said:
Instead why not buy a Lee .356 diameter bullet sizer for your press, re-size to .356 and shoot them in your 9mm that they were intended for?

This is what happens with bullet casting companies that coat bullets and don't size them after coating! What you have found is not at all unusual!
Click to expand...

Trying to avoid buying something additional, or changing the existing setup. Since my 9mm loads are for competition, I'm not interested in making the wrong thing work. Since I shoot a lot of .38 for fun (as well as competition), I'm hoping that I can use the bullets.
 
With the truncated cone nose of the bullet inside the case, I would worry about gas cutting in the barrel - that would divert propelling gasses to the edges of the bullet rather than the base. It would lessen obturation (expansion of the bullet to seal the gas pressure) and focus the hot gasses to the edges of the bullet. Over time, the rifling erosion could be significant and affect accuracy.

John
 
Second the above observation / comment. Load them right and shoot them. A hole in the paper is a hole in the paper.

Trying to make wadcutter rounds out of bullets by turning them around has been a topic of conversation for years. You will have a bullet that does not have the aerodynamics of a wadcutter nor will you have the accuracy of a wadcutter.
 
I came across a handful of 130gr FMJ FP intended for 38 super that mic's at .356". After consulting my Hornady 9th edition manual and comparing both 125gr & 140gr Hornady XTP's (which closely matched the bullet profile & weight) I loaded them with 6.0gr Power Pistol (in the middle range) and set the COL at 1.450". Seat the bullets normally.

I shot them thru my 4" 686 and they shot very well actually. Not match grade but accurate enough to hit a 12" steel plate at 50 yards. So with these bullets you have I would suggest trying 4-5 rounds first at COL of 1.450" and start off with 5.5gr Power pistol.
If using Hodgdens, I like Titegroup. Start off with 2.7gr but no more than 3.1 max. Again, a COL of 1.450" and that is with the bullet seated normally; pointy part going downrange first.
 
The truncated cone base will not be conductive to revolver accuracy.
But ...you say boat tail rifle bullets work....yes they do , shot out of a rifle there is no cylinder and barrel gap and forcing cone to traverse.
I've tried the reversed TC and even SWC for a full wadcutter load and it's nothing to write home about....unstable flight is the result.

A much better option is to load the TC bullets into 38/357 cases like they should be. I size my cast TC bullets .357 or .358 (doesn't seem to matter), use the 9 mm Luger taper crimp die to apply a taper crimp and shoot them out of my revolvers. Surprisingly accurate with the TC pointed normally...it will work much better than backwards .
Gary
 
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I had some over sized coated 125gr 9mm that did not work out.

My 38 and 357 loves them, loaded the normal way.
 
CCantu357 said:
Would it be possible to load them right side up as a 147 grain .38 Special - like the old Federal Hydra-Shok load?
Click to expand...

Haven't tried it, but not sure what depth they'll load to with my setup for 160gr LRN.


PALADIN85020 said:
With the truncated cone nose of the bullet inside the case, I would worry about gas cutting in the barrel - that would divert propelling gasses to the edges of the bullet rather than the base. It would lessen obturation (expansion of the bullet to seal the gas pressure) and focus the hot gasses to the edges of the bullet. Over time, the rifling erosion could be significant and affect accuracy.
Click to expand...

I could see that. But note that I am only talking about approximately 500 bullets, so it would not be a long-term activity, nor confined to a single gun. But this issue would make me concerned about firing them in my pre-14 K-38.


mikld said:
What's wrong with just loading them pointy end out, in your 38 Special? Don't want to adjust your dies?
Click to expand...

Bingo. I have my current setup dialed in for competition loads, and really don't want to futz with it just to load up a few hundred rounds of play ammo, and then futz with it again to get it back to where it needs to be for my competition ammo.

I'll experiment a little with loading them in the correct orientation. I did load and test fire three with the bullets reversed. Accuracy was fine, and there was no over-pressure indications at the case mouth or flattened primers. But it can't hurt to see what my setup does when putting them in the right way.

Thanks for all the input.
 
Bingo. I have my current setup dialed in for competition loads, and really don't want to futz with it just to load up a few hundred rounds of play ammo, and then futz with it again to get it back to where it needs to be for my competition ammo.
Click to expand...
You have a 38 Special crimp die set up? You could seat the bullets by hand, there's just a few, and crimp with your crimp die. Won't disturb your set up...
 
I never let die adjustment stop me from trying different bullets and loads, lot's of people will bad mouth a single stage press but this is exactly where they shine .
I have two bench mounted single stage presses , two Lee hand presses for mobility and one Lyman A-A Turret that mostly loads 357 magnum.
The single stage isn't dead yet to us who load lots of different things.
Believe it or not most of my handgun reloading happens with the Lee Hand Press , They are very ...handy !
Gary
 
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I use a single stage Hornady Lock N load classic. I love the convenience of using the locking sleeves to quickly change dies/calibers without making any readjustments.

It is a matter of my humble opinion that with a single stage press one can reload a overall better quality cartridge by weeding out any cracked cases, overcharged cases, bullet deformities etc that may have been overlooked during the reloading process over a progressive press that mass produces a higher volume of rounds.
 
No free lunch. Resize and shoot like intended, melt and re-make, give away, throw away - but, you will always remember screwing up your gun long after the bullets are disposed of.... I HAD a 5” model 10 that I tried some reloading shortcuts on many years ago. I bulged the barrel and blew the top of the cylinder off with 2.7 gr of Bullseye...
 
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PALADIN85020 said:
With the truncated cone nose of the bullet inside the case, I would worry about gas cutting in the barrel - that would divert propelling gasses to the edges of the bullet rather than the base. It would lessen obturation (expansion of the bullet to seal the gas pressure) and focus the hot gasses to the edges of the bullet. Over time, the rifling erosion could be significant and affect accuracy.

John
Click to expand...

I suppose it then follows that every boat-tailed bullet design will cause excessive gas cutting in the barrel and rifling erosion.
 
I think it would work, I have heard of this experiment before. Myconcern would be with that much of the bullet base sticking out of the front of the case, they might not chamber in your pistol. Try a dummy rond or two and see if it will even fit.
 
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