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200 grain lead bullets in 357/38 Special?
- Thread starter DanGee
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I have an Alliant data book from 2000 with data, given the age of the data, the maximums should be approached with caution. The current Lyman Cast Bullet load data book may have current data.
The data shows a minimum OAL for .357 or 1.575 in for .357; 1.540 for .38 Spl. All data from pressure barrels in universal receiver.
.357: Unique max 6.0 gr/1100 f/s; 2400 max 10.0 gr/1240 f/s with the Federal 200 primer.
.38 Spl: Unique max 3.6 gr/780 f/s; 2400 max 7.0 gr/870 f/s with Federal 100 primer.
.38 SP +P bumps both loads up 0.1 gr, no significant velocity gain ( 35 f/s .357, 20 f/s .38).
I also have a penciled in note that 5.7 gr of HS6 produced 824 f/s in .38 Spl cases in an actual pistol with 4 in barrel. Hogdon may have been my data source there, but I may have extrapolated the load. No data available for that bullet for Power Pistol.
If you're using fixed sights, the 3.6 gr Unique .38 load shot to point of aim/same as 158 gr factory. The HS6 load shot about 5 inches high at 25 yards. All those loads shot with a Lyman 200gr RN pistol bullet.
The data shows a minimum OAL for .357 or 1.575 in for .357; 1.540 for .38 Spl. All data from pressure barrels in universal receiver.
.357: Unique max 6.0 gr/1100 f/s; 2400 max 10.0 gr/1240 f/s with the Federal 200 primer.
.38 Spl: Unique max 3.6 gr/780 f/s; 2400 max 7.0 gr/870 f/s with Federal 100 primer.
.38 SP +P bumps both loads up 0.1 gr, no significant velocity gain ( 35 f/s .357, 20 f/s .38).
I also have a penciled in note that 5.7 gr of HS6 produced 824 f/s in .38 Spl cases in an actual pistol with 4 in barrel. Hogdon may have been my data source there, but I may have extrapolated the load. No data available for that bullet for Power Pistol.
If you're using fixed sights, the 3.6 gr Unique .38 load shot to point of aim/same as 158 gr factory. The HS6 load shot about 5 inches high at 25 yards. All those loads shot with a Lyman 200gr RN pistol bullet.
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rockquarry
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Older Lyman books have data for their 200 grain roundnose design. I don't believe it has been included in any of the newer manuals.
That bullet, Lyman 358430 is almost a round flat without much nose taper. It will have more bearing length and may be shorter than the OP's rifle bullets.
They will surely chamber in a contender but may have trouble in a revolver especially a short cylinder N frame.
rockquarry
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mtgianni- Thank you for clarifying that. I've never seen such a bullet, only the depictions in older Lyman books, and that's been a while.
elpac3
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The Lyman manual from 1967 gives:
195 grain cast #2 alloy
Bullseye 2.0 - 2.7 530 fps - 658 fps
Unique 3.0 - 4.1 572 fps - 772 fps
2400 8.0 - 9.5 734 fps - 893 fps
IMR 4227 7.0 - 9.5 494 fps - 748 fps
Factory duplicate load 3.8 grains Unique @ 703 fps
Accuracy load 3.6 grain Unique @ 671 fps
195 grain cast #2 alloy
Bullseye 2.0 - 2.7 530 fps - 658 fps
Unique 3.0 - 4.1 572 fps - 772 fps
2400 8.0 - 9.5 734 fps - 893 fps
IMR 4227 7.0 - 9.5 494 fps - 748 fps
Factory duplicate load 3.8 grains Unique @ 703 fps
Accuracy load 3.6 grain Unique @ 671 fps
Notice the differences in loads and velocities between Lyman 1967 and Alliant 2000. The higher velocities in the Alliant data is from the SAAMI spec longer test barrels vs the handguns Lyman used. The reduced max powder charges in the Alliant data are due to pressure transducers on the test barrels, some minor changes in powder chemistry plus minimum chambers and bore & groove diameters.
Also, a check of my Hogdon book confirms my load data for HS6 was extrapolated and confirmed by actual firing. Pressure estimation was probably the same way Lyman did in 1967: primer condition/extraction. Federal 100 primer and 5.1 gr HS6= 765 f/s from a 4 inch barrel, 5.5 gr=774 f/s (?????). The 5.1 gr load would probably hit close to factory, I didn't really shoot the lesser loads for accuracy/point of aim.
Dunno about bearing length being significantly different. The OAL of the old Lyman bullet was 0.795 in, bearing surface 0.450 in. SFAIK, Remington never loaded a lead bullet in the .35 Remington, but I'm willing to learn. OTOH, Remington did produce a .38 Spl load way back when with a 200 gr lead bullet. If that's the case, the bullet will probably look a lot like the standard 158 gr lead bullet but with a longer bearing surface to get to 200 grains.
Also, a check of my Hogdon book confirms my load data for HS6 was extrapolated and confirmed by actual firing. Pressure estimation was probably the same way Lyman did in 1967: primer condition/extraction. Federal 100 primer and 5.1 gr HS6= 765 f/s from a 4 inch barrel, 5.5 gr=774 f/s (?????). The 5.1 gr load would probably hit close to factory, I didn't really shoot the lesser loads for accuracy/point of aim.
Dunno about bearing length being significantly different. The OAL of the old Lyman bullet was 0.795 in, bearing surface 0.450 in. SFAIK, Remington never loaded a lead bullet in the .35 Remington, but I'm willing to learn. OTOH, Remington did produce a .38 Spl load way back when with a 200 gr lead bullet. If that's the case, the bullet will probably look a lot like the standard 158 gr lead bullet but with a longer bearing surface to get to 200 grains.
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I have never loaded 200gr in 38sp or 357 mg but I have a box
of Winchester 38sp 200gr lead bullet. Bullets are very blunt almost flat. They are in the white box so they are not super old.
Never have shot any. Been going to try them in m27.
of Winchester 38sp 200gr lead bullet. Bullets are very blunt almost flat. They are in the white box so they are not super old.
Never have shot any. Been going to try them in m27.
These are samples of the Remington bullets. They have a dark, waxy coating.
http://smith-wessonforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=364003&stc=1&d=1540653524
http://smith-wessonforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=364003&stc=1&d=1540653524
