Alliant Red Dot powder for 38

I'm a new reloader and am re-loading 38's for a S&W snub nose, various brass cases, and 158 Lswc bullets. I have Red Dot powder, but can't find a recipe to start from. Any help?....ps. I am going VERY slow and double checking everything.
model 66-2
Lee Challenger SS press
Lee scale
Lee new hand primer w/ Winchester sp primers

I use Red Dot in .38 spl. My load is 3.0 grains under a 158 grain RNFP. Not a barn buster load, but gets the job done accurately.

thanks, I will proceed with caution

It's my personal position that Red Dot is not a great choice in small doses because the large flakes tend to meter poorly from the powder measures that I use. This may be a minority opinion as many folks enjoy this powder in .38 Special but I don't care for it.

With that said, published load data with Alliant powders took a dump after 2005, so the 2005 Alliant guide is most definitely the source I like best for Alliant powders in handgun loads. The 2005 Alliant guide says that 3.1gr is your max load for a 158gr LSWC in .38 Special, they suggest 835fps and 14,600 PSI with a Federal #100 SP primer.

Lower this max load 10% and work toward it in your guns.

Go to the Alliant web site:
38 Special 158 gr Speer LSWC Speer 1.44 6 CCI 500 Red Dot 3.4 793fps

I shoot 3.5 grs with 158 gr cast bullet in my 38 spl loads . Has always worked well for me . Paul

One has to go back a ways to get Red Dot data. It is not listed nowadays very much.
Hornady #3 says 3.9grs is max. with their 158gr. Lead bullet. Hornady #4 dropped it down to 3.6grs.
Speer, starting with #10 all the way through #15 lists 3.8grs as a +P max. with their 158gr. lead bullet.

I remember quite a few shooters, back in the day, liking 3.9grs with 158gr. SWC's. in their K frame 38 Specials. No one every said that was too hot.
Now in 2" J frames or the like, I would drop down to no more than 3.5grs.. If for no other reason than that load would be more pleasant to shoot.
I also recall that back in the late 60's few of us had powder measures. It was weigh on a balance beam scale and load one at a time. As time went on we did acquire powder measures and began noticing an annoying trait with some of these large flake powders, like, Red Dot, Unique etc.. They wouldn't throw consistent charges very well. So we had to drop the target charge weight down a bit to compensate for the variation.. Or continue weighing one at a time.
So Red Dot is actually a very good powder for .38 Special loads, but it does come with that caveat..
That is partly the reason, I believe, that we don't see Red Dot listed much and, why the charges have been dropped quite a bit in present day data. There are many excellent powders presently that do meter well and are excellent in .38 Special.

sledvet77 said:

I'm a new reloader .... I have Red Dot powder, but can't find a recipe to start from. Any help?.

Click to expand...

Do yourself a favor. Spend $25 on a pound of Bullseye.

If you keep to around 3.5-4 grains of Red Dot with a 158 grain RN or SWC bullet, you will be OK. Experiment in that range to see what load shoots better for you. You might try going a little lighter than 3.5 grains if you want less recoil, I would stay above 3.0 grains.

J started reloading after Newtown when components were scarce. Red Dot was all I could find. I seem to recall 3.2 grains under a 158 grain LSWC. But as others have said, it does not meter well. I still weigh every charge with my new powder, HP38, just because I am super careful and not in a rush. The HP38 is dead on every time. But the Red Dot was always off. I had to set it super low and use a trickler with every drop. Took way too long.

Use a different powder. I really like HP38.

I’ve used it in 38 with accurate soft shooting results but like others mentioned, it doesn’t meter small charges the best. For measures I’ve tried uniflow, little dandy, and lee disks. With the disks on a 3.X charge I actually dropped 1.X grains a few times! It just bridged even though this was a turret press and was rattling and banging its way around.

I have since stopped and use it only for 30-30 reduced loads in the 6-7 grain weight and no more problems. I load these on a single stage and use the uniflow though.

The Hornady 3rd Edition (1982) lists a starting charge of 2.6 grains of Red Dot and a maximum charge of 3.9 grains of Red Dot for a 158 gr lead round nose bullet. The starting velocity was 650 fps in a 6" barrel and the maximum velocity was 900 fps.

For their 158 gr JHP, (the pre-XTP in S&W terms) they listed a starting load of 3.3 grains of Red Dot, a maximum standard pressure load of 3.8 grains, and two .38 +P loads at 4.1 grains and 4.3 grains of Red Dot. The starting velocity was 650 fps in a 6" barrel and the maximum standard pressure velocity was 750 fps and the maximum .38+ P velocity was 850 fps.

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.38 Special pressures are often confusing and debated.

The SAAMI published standards for maximum average pressure (MAP) in 1974, stated in PSI, for the .38 Special were 17,000 psi for standard pressure and 18,500 psi for .38 +P.

However, in 1994, the .38 +P SAAMI MAP pressure standard was changed from 18,500 psi to 20,000 psi when ammunition manufacturers could not provide the performance levels demanded by consumers. This change was not reflected in many loading manuals because it occurred after the publication of the ANSI standards manual in 1993. So the pressure used in loading manuals for ".38 +P" loads can be a little murky.

But basically, if you're loading .38 for a modern stamped model number K frame, .38 +P loads are fine, by either the old 18,500 psi) or new (20,000 psi) standards. If you are loading for an older revolver or a J frame that is not identified as ok for +P loads, stay with the 17,000 psi limit.

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I like to use 3.4 grains of Red Dot as a target load under a 158 gr cast bullet.

I use a Dillon measure on a 550B and it apparently shakes enough as the press cycles to settle the powder consistently, as I get very consistent throws. I'll cycle the measure about 10 times after filling the hopper to settle the powder, then check the weight, and then randomly pull one off the plate to re-check the weight every 20 rounds or so.

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The original S&W loading used a 158 gr lead bullet on top of 21 1/2 grains of FFFg black (nd about 800 fps). Consequently, whether you use Red dot, Unique, Bullseye or Win 231 be aware that the .38 Special is a comparatively large case, So large that it is easy to get a maximum charge of any of these powders in the case, and still have it not be overly obvious, let alone over flow the case. Consequently, you need to carefully inspect the powder level in each case to ensure there is not a double charge. That's a common caution with any of the old black powder era cartridges, as well as with the .357 Mag, since it's a .125" longer version of the .38 Special.

I have experienced minimal problems in consistent powder weights using Red Dot in my Lyman 55 powder measure. But I have a baffle in the powder chamber and over the years have developed a consistent method of moving the handle sharply. At one time Red Dot was my favorite powder for .45 ACP and that was all I used. I was also using Red Dot for loading 12 gauge trap and skeet loads. I no longer load shotshells and have run out of Red Dot. But my present favorite handgun powder for non-magnum loads is 700-X which is ballistically similar to Bullseye. I have run out of Bullseye also but I have ample amounts of 700-X and Clays, which are good substitutes for Bullseye.

I agree with the comments about using the Lee powder dippers. I have a set of them and still use dippers for small runs rather than setting up the powder measure. Technique is everything. I remember once having a can of HS-6 which would absolutely not meter through my Lyman 55 (it jammed it up) so I was forced to use dippers.

At current I have over 10 lbs of red dot. It is my low power powder of choice. For data go to the Alliant site and enter the reloading guide. Go to Products, then shotgun then click on Red Dot powder. Hit the "show all Red Dot loads for handgun recipes. it shows many common revolver calibers.

Thanks to everyone for your comments and personal Data. I,m on a steep learning curve and you,ve been very helpful. ....Don,t know why I picked RED DOT to start, but I only have 1 lb so i,ll use it as a learning experience, or maybe give it to a shotgunner and start with a finer powder that,s less flaky. I have the yellow .5cc dipper and may just do a couple experimental loads to try......either case I will proceed cautiously as we Vietnam Vets are getting scarce these days....no need to rush!

Since you already have Red Dot, use it. You may be pleasantly surprised.

I like red dot because it's bulkier than most powders for 38 spl , except trail boss . According to the LEE data using scoops , it says that the .5 cc scoop is 3.5 grs of Red Dot . I have used the .5cc scoop for years loading the 38spl using red dot powder . That makes a real nice 38 spl load using 158 gr bullets . I like red dot because it would be pretty easy to spot a double charge . I " hate " using titegroup powder in the 38spl . It's so dense it only takes a few grains to give you a 3.5 gr load . A double charge would be very very hard to spot . Red dot serves 38spl very well . I use it in other cartridges as well , 44 special and 45 colt loads . Regards, Paul

Red dot will work in target to full +P loads with the 158gr lead bullet.
You just need to try loads out to see what your weapon likes.

My 6" likes a middle pressure loading.

I bought Red Dot a few years back, during the "powder shortage". It actually worked almost as well as my "go to" powder-Bullseye. I have used the Lee dippers and the Lee Auto Disk powder measure with great success. Neither varies more than +/- .1 gr. Red Dot actually shoots cleaner, in my experience. I've also used RD in 9mm with very good results with cast lead bullets. I have about 6 lbs. on hand, just in case...