Power Pistol in .460S&W?

the_buckshot_kid · Dec 28, 2019

Has anyone used Alliant Power Pistol in a .460XVR yet? Alliant claims 21gr with a 250gr. Speer GDHP. Unfortunately, I don’t have Speer bullets but do have a lot of Hornady 240gr XTP Mag bullets. Wonder what the min/max charge would be.

ruggyh · Dec 28, 2019

The Speer 250 and the 240 XTP MAG are the same length and cannalure are in the same location. I would start with the listed minimum of the 250 Speer and work up.

As an aside Power Pistol is ok in 460 but there are many better choices that will produce more consistent loading.
As a rule of thumb the higher the case fill the more consist the cartridge will perform- look for powders that have 80% or better case fill. Note

istol powder case fill will be from about 55 to 60%.

be safe
Ruggy

the_buckshot_kid · Dec 29, 2019

Thanks for the reply. I know there’s a lot of better powders out there but pretty much all I’ve got left for my handguns is PP,2400 and CFE pistol. .Supplies seem to be dwindling out there and my local dealers can’t get anything anymore. Been on the hunt for Varget and 4064 for quite some time as well but there again I’m stuck with other powders that don’t perform as well.

BLUEDOT37 · Dec 29, 2019

the_buckshot_kid said:
Wonder what the min/max charge would be.

Power Pistol is not position sensitive so lighter loads aren't a problem.

I use 16.0-17.0gr of P-P, with a 250gr bullet as a light load to warm-up with or for newbies. Should be ~1100mv/650me. I've tried as low as 15.0gr.

.

the_buckshot_kid · Dec 29, 2019

None of my books Nosler,Sierra,Hornady,Lyman even have a listing for PP. The only info I could find was from Speer listing their 250gr starting at 19gr and max out at 21gr. Always have been a Nosler and Sierra fan so I’ve never used Speer or Hornady bullets...couldn’t find Speer anyway. Ruggy says that the Speer 250 and the Hornady 240 are the same length. I’ll give all this info a try and see what happens. I normally cast for my revolvers but upon slugging I found that the bore is oversized compared to the throats and Smith used “gain twist” rifling in the XVR so I thought jacketed might work better.

ruggyh · Dec 29, 2019

the_buckshot_kid said:
.... upon slugging I found that the bore is oversized compared to the throats and Smith used “gain twist” rifling in the XVR so I thought jacketed might work better.

By chance what were the measurements of the bore and throats?
Which model (SKU or barrel length) do you have?

thanks

be safe
Ruggy

the_buckshot_kid · Dec 31, 2019

Sorry, I had to measure again bc I didn’t remember. The SKU is 163460. Ok...1 cyl throat is .451 3 cyl throats are .4515 and 1 is .452. I’m getting .452+ at the muzzle down maybe 2 1/2-3” down the bore. Then it really starts to loosen. I’m guessing about 1” after the forcing cone the slug practically falls out.

ruggyh · Jan 1, 2020

Thanks for taking the time to post the measurements.

be safe
Ruggy

the_buckshot_kid · Jan 11, 2020

So if I stay between 19gr and 21gr of PP I should be safe with the XTP Mag bullet?

BLUEDOT37 · Jan 12, 2020

the_buckshot_kid said:
So if I stay between 19gr and 21gr of PP I should be safe with the XTP Mag bullet?

The new Sierra #VI manual doesn't list any load data for the 460 S&W (oddly) but they do list Power Pistol & their 240gr JHC bullet in the 454 Casull. It's max is 20.8gr/P-P.

The Sierra 240gr bullet is slightly shorter than the 240gr Hornady bullet but seats slightly deeper, per my notes.

That's easily offset though by the 460's longer (.417") case length, over the 454C's, reducing pressure.

Work-up slowly & triple check that you don't double charge that big 460 case.

.

the_buckshot_kid · Jan 12, 2020

BLUEDOT37 said:
The new Sierra #VI manual doesn't list any load data for the 460 S&W (oddly) but they do list Power Pistol & their 240gr JHC bullet in the 454 Casull. It's max is 20.8gr/P-P.

The Sierra 240gr bullet is slightly shorter than the 240gr Hornady bullet but seats slightly deeper, per my notes.

That's easily offset though by the 460's longer (.417") case length, over the 454C's, reducing pressure.

Work-up slowly & triple check that you don't double charge that big 460 case.

.

It didn’t even dawn on me to check .454 Casull data lol. The new Nosler book doesn’t have .460 or .454 Casull data either. I talked to a tech at Sierra a week ago about why there wasn’t any listing in their book. He said bc they don’t even want to test the .460

.

the_buckshot_kid · Jan 12, 2020

This is interesting....my Sierra edition V lists PP in the .454 Casull using their 240gr at 11.1gr to 15.5gr and specifically says not to load faster than 1400fps.

ruggyh · Jan 12, 2020

You can not use 454 casual data directly in 460 S&W.

You can compare case fill between the 2, note there is a gross difference in case volume between these two cartridges - the 460 case is about 1/2" longer.

and specifically says not to load faster than 1400fps.

and I would heed their advise; this suggest the jacket will not stand the velocities/pressure- resulting in poor terminal performance and potential jacket separations.

In 460 testing I had XTP jackets separations, hence with Hornady bullets use on the XTP MAG at 460 pressure and velocities.

all .451 and .452 bullets are not created equal. All reloading components should meet the application- choose wisely.

be safe
Ruggy
'

the_buckshot_kid · Jan 12, 2020

ruggyh said:
You can not use 454 casual data directly in 460 S&W.

You can compare case fill between the 2, note there is a gross difference in case volume between these two cartridges - the 460 case is about 1/2" longer.

and I would heed their advise; this suggest the jacket will not stand the velocities/pressure- resulting in poor terminal performance and potential jacket separations.

In 460 testing I had XTP jackets separations, hence with Hornady bullets use on the XTP MAG at 460 pressure and velocities.

all .451 and .452 bullets are not created equal. All reloading components should meet the application- choose wisely.

be safe
Ruggy
'

No I wasn’t suggesting using .454 data to replace .460 data. I thought it was interesting that 2 Sierra manuals ( 5th and 6th edition) would be different by over 5gr with the same load.

buck460XVR · Jan 12, 2020

ruggyh said:
and I would heed their advise; this suggest the jacket will not stand the velocities/pressure- resulting in poor terminal performance and potential jacket separations.

^^^This. In my Speer #14, they make the statement that their .45 caliber, 250, 260 HPs and their 300 gr Uni-Core SP bullets are rated to little over .44 Mag pressures and are only to be used in the .460 at reduced pressures. Their only appropriate bullet for legitimate .460 pressures and velocities is their 300 gr Deep Curl.......which is my choice for hunting deer.

the_buckshot_kid · Jan 12, 2020

mr.revolverguy said:
I have used Alliant Power Pistol for this exact recipe.

240gr XTP Mag
Alliant Power Pistol 25gr
Across the chronograph 1502fps
Estimated Pressure 37400psi Max SAAMI spec PSI 65000

The only thing I do not like about this load is that to the touch/skin the Xframe and Barrel gets hot. Though it is accurate.

I have developed another load with Alliant 2400 it burns cooler to the touch anyway not as much percussion and fills the case better.

Since I have some 2400, what load have you been working on?

the_buckshot_kid · Jan 12, 2020

mr.revolverguy said:
240gr XTP Mag
Alliant 2400 33gr
Across the chronograph 1490fps
Estimated Pressure 3200psi Max SAAMI spec PSI 65000

I knew this load would be safe because I am using some ballistics software and Alliant load data says 36gr of 2400 under a 300gr speer bullet is max.

Please keep in mind this was safe for me. But I would start lower and work your way up because I am sure your revolvers has different tolerances than mine even if they were made on the same day. Be safe and DO NOT TAKE THIS AS GOSPEL or SAFE FOR YOUR conditions.

Speer has a listing using 2400 @ 29-31gr using their 250gr DCHP. But can’t get my hands on Speer bullets.

BLUEDOT37 · Jan 13, 2020

the_buckshot_kid said:
I talked to a tech at Sierra a week ago about why there wasn’t any listing in their book. He said bc they don’t even want to test the .460 .

Obviously they don't have any confidence in their existing bullets & don't want to develop a new one just for the 460 Mag.

Most of the new manual's pistol data is all new, re-done using a new system. While a lot of it is lower than the old manual some is higher.

If you believe QuickLoads:

460 Mag, HDY 240gr XTP-MAG, P-P@ 21.0gr, COAL: 2.180" = 30.1K psi

454 Casull, HDY 240gr XTP-MAG, P-P@ 21.0gr, COAL: 1.705" = 52.3K psi

(reference only)

.

(FYI: Sierra #5 shows the 454C COAL with their 240gr JHC at 1.680" while the same bullet in Sierra #6 has a COAL of just 1.555". Big difference in pressure. I'd think that's a miss-print?)

.

buck460XVR · Jan 16, 2020

BLUEDOT37 said:
Obviously they don't have any confidence in their existing bullets & don't want to develop a new one just for the 460 Mag.

It's not about confidence, it's about not pushing a bullet past it's designed velocities. I too contacted Sierra a while back with regard to whether or not any of their .45 caliber bullets were appropriate fro .460 velocities. It came down to that their .45 caliber handgun bullets were designed for proper terminal performance way below .460 velocities......and yes, they had no intentions to deign a new bullet for the limited .453 and .460 market. Sierra is not a big producer or supplier of handgun bullets in most any caliber.....at least as far as I have seen. Even those handgun bullets they have for the handloader are not readily available any LGS I shop.

Power Pistol in .460S&W?

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