Data on 45 Colt in rifles

tacotime · Jan 7, 2020

I don't see much published load and ballistics data on .45 Colt for rifles.

Not looking for +P loads. Main purpose would be a short to medium range rifle for hogs.

Is there a GO TO powder for the 45 Colt in rifles?

For hogs do we like hard cast bullets or jacketed HP or SP bullets?

Does anyone have any idea about the safe pressure limits for the recent Win. Model 94 rifles?

Thanks.

boatbum101 · Jan 7, 2020

I've never had a 45 Colt chambered rifle . I did have a RBH in 45 Colt . I also shoot hogs . I prefer the LBT style wide meplat cast bullets . If you're going to shoot cast you need to slug your bore & do what's called a pound cast to determine throat dimensions . That'll let you know what size bullet will chamber in your rifle . Win 94 will handle SAAMI max loads & most probably then some . I wouldn't go off the deep end though . The original BP load of a 255gr bullet @ 900fps aint no slouch & I think you could get 1200fps with a Lyman 452424 255gr SWC , WLP primer , Win cases , oal 1.575" & 10.7grs of Accurate # 5 . That bullet is an Elmer Keith design & usually pretty accurate if your gun likes them . Only 2 good shots for a hog IMHO , behind the ear & forward of the shoulder curve if hit right severs the spine & breaks the neck or through both shoulders . The cast bullet will break both shoulders & pass completely through even a big hog . Forget everything about deer as hogs are built different . Hogs heart is further forward & behind the shoulder don't work too well . Some have had good results with slower powders but I got better results with the medium burn powders . 700X , Titegroup ( which I hate ) , Acc #5 , VVN-340 , 4227 ( win LP or mag primer ) , 2400 , Unique & some use Power Pistol . Tiny rim on the case which will tear off if too hot & when resizing cases used with hot loads . Reality is if you want 44mag performance get a 44mag . If the Keith bullet won't feed in your gun then I'd go with a RNFP . Bigger the meplat the better .

rockquarry · Jan 7, 2020

Lyman has published "rifle" data for years, but it may be the same data as standard pressure handgun loads.

Ken Waters did a "Pet Load" article for HANDLOADER magazine quite a few years back with extensive load data tested in a 94 Trapper, 16" barrel. As I recall, I think he had standard data and higher pressure data, mostly jacketed bullets, but he may have done some cast work, too. There's really no advantage to using a jacketed bullet in the .45 Colt cartridge, but I suppose some people like them.

I bought a new Winchester Trapper about thirty years ago, not long after they were introduced. It doesn't shoot much flatter than a .45 Colt handgun and if wasn't for the great accuracy, I doubt I'd keep the gun. I use the Lyman #454424, about 260 grains, and Unique or HS-6 powder loaded to standard pressure. Zeroed at 50 yards, bullet drop is several inches at 100 yards.

tacotime · Jan 7, 2020

Great practical info boatbum!

Just saw the Waters loads and part of the article, good info rockquarry, thanks!

Imissedagain · Jan 7, 2020

From Lyman's 49th in a '94/16".
Mine is a '92/24" and will be working up hunting loads soon.
Case might be the limiting factor.
Will check later but the '94 might be around 38K???
I have a '94 Ranger in 44Mag to load for and will be loading again soon.

Lead HC or PC if Penns, use other powders as well.

Trailboss as well.

Hope this helps.

Imissedagain · Jan 7, 2020

Here ya go!

https://www.riflemagazine.com/magazine/PDF/hl149partial.pdf

rockquarry · Jan 7, 2020

Something I failed to mention... I bought a new (Miroku) Winchester '92 reproduction about twenty-five years ago. It had a 24" barrel and was just as accurate as the Trapper. However, my favorite .45 Colt bullet, the Lyman #454424, had to be seated considerably deeper than the revolver and Trapper load's overall length if the cartridge was to work through the magazine and action of the '92.

glowe · Jan 7, 2020

I believe we are discussing an issue that Winchester figured out back in 1873. Straight walled cases in lever-guns shoot very dirty. I have often wondered why Winchester never built one lever-action rifle in 45 Colt to my knowledge and, until I bought my first Uberti 1873 in 45 Colt, I could not answer the question.

Shooting the 45 Colt 1873 is great until you notice all the fouling that can accumulate in the action. I started shooting Unique and Bullseye at low velocities and light bullets and found that the chamber pressures were too low to expand the brass and seal the chamber. Those options proved to be so dirty that the brass lifter would start to bind and anyone that has taken an 1873 apart know it is not much fun.

I determined that three issues need to be addressed to keep the fouling down. It is claimed that the chambers in the Uberti 1873 is very generous to start with, larger than revolver chambers, so bullet weight, brand of powder, and velocity/pressure are all important.

I have tried several bullet weights from under 200s to 255 and settled on 255g RNFP as the best bullet to help with brass sealing since heavy bullets do a better job of producing back-pressure. The cleanest powder I have used in my rifle so far is Trail Boss, which I loaded all the way up to 9g. That was widely suggested as a maximum load by reloaders, but not recommended to exceed. Hodgdon is of little help, since they do not list 45 Colt loads for rifles that I can find. I found that using 8.5g of Trail Boss eliminated most of the fouling in my rifle using Trail Boss, shot 255g bullets accurately, and estimated pressures under the max of under 15,000psi. If you want to shoot clean as possible, you need a heavy bullet and a load near the max pressure the rifle was designed for, which seems to be somewhere between 14,000 and 20,000 psi, depending on the source.

Bottom line for me is that If I were ask by anyone what caliber I would recommend for a reproduction 1873, it would be 44-40. I have a Henry and an 1866 in that caliber and the necked cartridge shoots very clean with a wide variety of powders.

oneoff · Jan 7, 2020

"The Complete Reloading Manual for the .45 Colt" has some rifle data. I don't recall how much, but I remember seeing it in there, and I'm pretty sure from a couple of different manufacturers. I bought one of these for a friend not long ago. Amazon doesn't have any right now, but I'd bet that won't last long.
I've got a Rossi 92, and have loaded it right up there with the Ruger Only loads. I would approach them very slowly and carefully.
Glowe is right on, if you're going to download much at all, it's better to pick a modern powder, maybe Vihtavouri, that won't be so grungy. But I've mostly stuck with middle-of the road Unique loads under a 255gr. Keith. Classic. That'll handle a deer as far as I care to shoot with that gun! Recoil's not bad, and it's not all that dirty if you stay over 7 grains or so as I remember.

rockquarry · Jan 7, 2020

glowe: My experience is somewhat different. Regardless of the powder used, I've never seen the .45 Colt cartridge to shoot dirtier than anything else when using conventionally lubed cast bullets nor do I recall rifle actions being fouled as a result.

However, I use only heavy bullets (260 grains) and size to .454" which is probably a little over groove diameter. Powder charges are always around maximum recommended for standard pressure loads. I use a good roll crimp, but likely a bit lighter than what most use.

Hairtrigger · Jan 7, 2020

I found out the hard way that some handloads that I shoot in my Blackhawk are too long for my Win 92 and Rossi pump

Imissedagain · Jan 7, 2020

These are 44 Mags with a 240gr XTP for our '94AE.
One crimped at the cannalure and the long one is max for our 2004 '94AE.

The '94 will be going to the Rockies this year and paired with the 629/4" that's already out there.
Then I'll load what fits both.

The '92 loads are shorter but specs are not at hand.
That's max for our '99 1892.
Found a 45Colt ....next to the same 44Mag.

pics of dummies.

Mike SC Hunter · Jan 7, 2020

My cronograph notes(Oehler 35P) for my 45LC 1892 24" octagon are

8.5 grs of Unique/255 gr cast swc......1315 fps avg.
10 grs of unique/255 gr cast swc........1347 fps avg.

Ruger 45LC 4 5/8" bbl......10 grs of Unique 255 gr cast swc.......1128 fps avg.

So you can see there is quite an increase in velocity from the 4 5/8" Ruger to the 24" 92 with the same load......219 fps increase .

The 8.5 gr load is all I use in My Smith & Ruger 45LC's.

cowboy4evr · Jan 7, 2020

John Linebaughs articles tells about using H-110 in his Smith model 25 , 4" barrel . So I'm sure your rifle will handle the pressures using H-110 well . I would check on his article for his loads using various bullets . Regards, Paul

Charlie Foxtrott · Jan 7, 2020

I run a 300 grain Hornady XTP on top of 20 grains of Winchester 296.

It will kill any hog out there with a decent shot inside of a hundred rounds, and then some. Just the ticket out of my Miroku Winchester model 92. It would however turn my S&W model 25 into junk in fairly short order.

growr · Jan 7, 2020

I always thought .45 Colt should be filled with as much blackpowder as it will hold and then seat a bullet....

Should be a real hoot!!

Randy

Warren Sear · Jan 7, 2020

I had this reproduction Colt Lightning (made by Taurus?) until my brother saw it and had to have it. Caliber was .45 Colt. It was a lot of fun, and worked great.

I just used the same cast lead round nose/flat point hand loaded ammo that I used in my Cimarron Uberti SAA revolver. 200 grain bullet with Unique powder.

If I had it to do over again, I would have kept the rifle. Oh well...

glowe · Jan 8, 2020

rockquarry said:
glowe: My experience is somewhat different. Regardless of the powder used, I've never seen the .45 Colt cartridge to shoot dirtier than anything else when using conventionally lubed cast bullets nor do I recall rifle actions being fouled as a result . . .

I think we ended up with the same conclusions, heavy loading, heavy bullets, clean burning powder are the key for the 45 Colt Italian reproductions.

I have to say that there are a lot of calibers out there that are good for hogs and 45 Colt shot out of a lever-gun doesn't come to mind as one of them.

Sure, feral pigs are vermin, but don't deserve a slow painful death that could easily happen by using low velocity bullets with limited range and accuracy? Of all the chronograph work I have done, I cannot safely get 45 Colt toggle-action rifles much faster than 1300 fps using standard max loading tables. What bothers me is that one often reads that more people in the Old-West died from infection and lead poisoning than from the initial reaction to being shot. I would not want to be responsible for that happening to wild pigs. I do undersstand that later Winchester models (1892 & 1894) have higher pressure limits, but do not own any of those guns to test.

Finding quantative values for pressure limits of lever-guns is like pulling teeth! I have repeatedly searched for specific pressure ratings for various reproductions and all you get from the "experts" is don't shoot over the max pressures, only shoot low pressure loads, don't exceed the manufacturers pressure limits, good pressure, medium pressure, high pressure, and NO ONE will put a number with their discussions.

The best rule of thumb I have found over the years is that 'Henry, '66, and '73s are rated at 14,000PSI, which is bull because they are only using pistol data. Occasionally, someone will say these rifles are good for 20,000PSI, but without reference. Pressure numbers for the '92 and '94 rifles in 45 Colt are just as hard to find. The most popular max pressure found was 50,000PSI, but again without references or any knowledge of where the number comes from. If anyone out there has documented pressure limits, the OP and I would appreciate it.

Imissedagain · Jan 8, 2020

Modern Winchester '94s and '92s are chambered for 357 and 44 Mag so it can handle those pressures.

tacotime · Jan 8, 2020

I agree I can't find any specific pressure ratings for the Win. 94. I don't want to push the rifle in the pressure department, so I will use published non +P rifle loads.

But as a counter point for the adequacy of the round, a lot of the field reports from various other posts on other forums report complete shoot-throughs on hogs with .45 Colt in rifles, usually the handloaded heavier bullets. I am thinking for the typically medium hogs (say to 150 lbs) in the brush at moderate ranges (say to 100 yards), that the old Colt with rifle loads (and not +P) is enough gun.

Data on 45 Colt in rifles

Member

Member

Member

Member

US Veteran

Attachments

US Veteran

Member

US Veteran

Member

Member

Member

US Veteran

Attachments

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Attachments

US Veteran

US Veteran

Member

Similar threads