38 S&W in time of need

[Ivan the Butcher]

It began with this little act: I had a local Holstersmith make an additional holster for a pair of suspenders. The original holster was for a Davis 32 ACP Derringer, and the new holster was for an Model of 1986 Safety Hammerless in 38 S&W.

Then the Holstersmith's gun shop gets another 1896 in on consignment. My brother tries to buy it but the Holstersmith refuses to sell, and keeps it for himself. My brother mentioned I would make ammo for him (a wishful statement at best!), so the Holstersmith who has no 38 S&W ammo, no brass, no bullets and no primers, says he will pay me to make him some ammo. Through my brother, I say I'll stop by and talk to him before Thanksgiving. This whole thing developed while I was holiday grocery shopping with my wife.

Upon returning to home after shopping, in between hauling in frozen turkey and other provisions, I start checking what all I have on hand. I have about 400 brass of new and used condition, plenty of powder & Primers. BUT no 146 grain bullets of any design! I do have 1000 158 gr SWC and 100 158 RN cast bullets all sized to .358". So I pull two boxes of mostly Remington Brass into the loading room. I take a RN Bullet and drop it through the cylinder, it is so undersize it never slowed down. TOO BAD, it's all I've got. Upon sticking the bullet into the open bore it did stop, before we ran out of ogive. That will have to be good enough.

Now for dies. I have never owned a set of dies for 38 S&W, my best friend owns one old Lyman set that I have used in the past, but the logistics will cause a problem. So I need to work around this. I have 70 some die sets that allow me to load 119 different cartridges. I dig out a set of Lee Carbide dies for 38 Super and use it to size and decap the 100 cases. When using Lee shell holders, #1 does both 38 Special and 38 S&W, (not true for Lyman or RCBS shell holders) so I prime the brass with Winchester Small Pistol primers and move on to case mouth flaring, the 38Super die for this is too long! So I dig out a 357 Sig die for that step.

The best powder I have for this project is Unique. I decide on 3.0 grains. Then I adjust the Lyman #55 powder measure to this weight using the "hammer" with the handle up and again with the handle down. This make for very consistent charges with flake powders. But how am I going to crimp the case onto the bullet? The 38 Super crimp die is too long and the 357 Sig die gets funky and a straight wall case (slightly tapered actually!). So I break down and pull the 9mm taper crimp die from my Dillon tool head. I set the taper crimp with a spare case (it turned out to be a Winchester) and about .02" longer than the Remingtons!) I set the OAL to 1.15" and load the first 10, and they look great BUT the crimp is on the too mild side. It still works so I load the other 90. This took me until 0630 this morning! I went to bed and got up in time for lunch with a friend.

After lunch, I walked into the Holstersmith's shop and told him I thought it was ridiculous to refuse the gun to my brother, then request ammo from me! He was embarrassed and stammering as I pulled a box of 50 from my pocket. He wanted to pay for them, but I said he couldn't afford my time! However, my brother and I both like the holsters you made us and these are a "thank you" gift. But if you ever tell anyone I'll make them some ammo, I WILL say, I never heard of you before!

In these hard and troubled times, the gun guys have to stick together. And I have another box to shoot in my 6 guns chambered in 38 S&W!

Ivan

[walnutred]

You could have borrowed the 38 S&W dies but then you would not have had a good story. BTW, I've also used 9 Mak dies to reload 38 S&W just to see if they would work.

[nbedford]

I loaded some for a friend. He asked me if I loaded them, and I thought, why not? Got a set of Lee dies, and brass, and for bullets I mostly used 148 gr. HBWC's; as I figured they would obturate enough to make up for bore size.

[Ivan the Butcher]

Originally Posted by walnutred

You could have borrowed the 38 S&W dies but then you would not have had a good story. BTW, I've also used 9 Mak dies to reload 38 S&W just to see if they would work.

I know you would loan me your dies, but I could get them before Friday and more likely Sunday. This way I'm already done and didn't have to lube them.

I like the idea of 9mm Mak dies, but that another one I don't own. BUT , one question I have is: What about a 9mm Mak cast bullet, Are they heavy enough to stabilize in that twist of riffling? Lyman #45 didn't think 125 grain bullets were accurate in their 4" Model 33.

Again Thanks for the offer.

Ivan

[Ivan the Butcher]

Originally Posted by nbedford

I loaded some for a friend. He asked me if I loaded them, and I thought, why not? Got a set of Lee dies, and brass, and for bullets I mostly used 148 gr. HBWC's; as I figured they would obturate enough to make up for bore size.

About 30 years ago I loaded some of the original Hydra-Shok Wadcutters (146 gr with the massive hollow point w/post, and still had a hollow base) in 38 S&W with a 1.18 OAL. And used them in one of my Iver Johnson revolvers They shot great and expanded to around 3/4", but were expensive and are now all but extinct!

Ivan

[gwpercle]

Ivan ,
Your story put a smile on my face ... Thanks I needed a smile .

Also reminds me of an old saying ... "Necessity is the mother of using what you got to load what you need" ... or something like that
Gary

[glowe]

I think I paid $25 for my 38 S&W die set on ebay. I see there are a couple 2 die sets for under $20 out there right now plus shipping. At that price, you need them even if you don't reload for that caliber!!

[jcelect]

38 S&W case OD =.386" Bullet = .361"
38 SPL/357 Mag case OD =.379" Bullet = ..357"
38 Super case OD = .384" Bullet = .356"
I'm in the process of starting to reload 38 S&W for a Mod 32. It appears that 38 Super dies would work better for resizing causing less work hardening of the case and allow the case to seal the chamber better using the light loads of the 38 S&W. I'm still not convinced on how to crimp the bullet! I have found some .361" lead bullets.
jcelect

[Ivan the Butcher]

Originally Posted by jcelect

38 S&W case OD =.386" Bullet = .361"
38 SPL/357 Mag case OD =.379" Bullet = ..357"
38 Super case OD = .384" Bullet = .356"
I'm in the process of starting to reload 38 S&W for a Mod 32. It appears that 38 Super dies would work better for resizing causing less work hardening of the case and allow the case to seal the chamber better using the light loads of the 38 S&W. I'm still not convinced on how to crimp the bullet! I have found some .361" lead bullets.
jcelect

I used the 9mm taper crimp die, 380 would work too. I didn't try the 357 Sig seat & crimp die, and can only say "it MIGHT work"

Years ago, a local commercial loader used his carbide 38/357 sizer to full length size a batch (5000) of 38 S&W. Out of my Iver Johnson they shot fantastic, but every case cracked just above the web! But if you only sized the top 1/2" of the case (neck size) with the 38/357 die, you won't need a crimp!

Ivan

[walnutred]

While I do have the Lee mold I didn't think to try the Mak bullet. I expect it would work OK but I have a 128gn SWC mold that throws .360 diameter bullets.

[gwpercle]

Once I cobbled together some 38 S&W reloads buy using a steel 38 special sizer to neck size the top 5/16" of the case , enough to hold the bullet base securely , used a 38 cal. -148 gr. HBWC over light charge of Bullseye , with a light crimp from a 9mm Luger die set . The brass was from factory ammo fired in my S&W DA top break ... they didn't need full length resizing this time .
They worked pretty darn good !
Gary