.45 Schofield cases for reloading .455 Webley

blackpowder

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Good day to everyone !

I am out of cases for reloading my .455 Webley Mk IV and was thinking of substituting .45 Schofield cases- of which I have plenty of - for the hard to get Webleys by shortening the case length. Far as I can see, that should be all that's necessary.

Has anyone tried this?

Thanks for input and advice.....:)
 
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The Schofield case has the (standard) rim thickness of .060" which the 45Colt and most every other rimmed pistol case uses.
The .455 uses a much thinner rim at around .040"

Some rim thinning of the Schofield cases rim would be in order. Usually done from the back side of the rim so the primer pocket depth is not effected.

Another way to the thin the rim would be to press the case/rim in a die that compresses just the rim itself and thus thins it out. It can be adj to most any thickness this way and leaves the primer pocket unaltered.
The rim will increase in dia just a bit but the Webley rim is quite large in dia as it is so I doubt it would interfere.
The die is usually a home-made affair and used in a standard loading press.

You'd need a lathe to make the die or a lathe to easily reduce the case rims..
It's easier to buy some 455 brass if you can locate any.
 
You might check the Buffalo Arms website to see what they offer. They used to sell cases made from .45 Colt brass that had been shortened and had the rim thinned to .455 Mark I specs. Of course if Mk II is what you want, Starline may be the best way to go.

You may know that Fiocchi makes .455 Webley Mk II loaded ammunition if you want to go that route.
 
The Fiocchi brass is OK, but uses the small pistol primers. I stocked up some Starline when it first became available. Unless I needed Mk 1 brass to make up black powder Webley loads, I wouldn't fool with converting Colt or Schofield brass.
 
If you want the very best brass for accuracy and reloading longevity in the 455, making cases from 45 Colt, 45 Schofield, etc. is the way to go.
When I had a S&W mkII 455, I found that after thinning the rims in a lathe (or drill press), I could determine the best overall length to get the case mouth within .010" of the chamber throats. What I ended up with was a case whose overall length was ideal for my revolver, yet didn't coincide with any commercial cartridge.

Back then, my 455 was used as my first centerfire target revolver for Bullseye club matches. The cases were the first problem to solve. Then, I needed to cast my own bullets. I found an old Lyman 45 swc mold that dropped slugs at .455"-.456" depending on my alloy.
Finally, an "old school" 45 Colt size die helped ensure my cases weren't overly resized. That will ruin your cast bullets when you seat them, and eat into your case life.

By the way, I never could stand those stubby mkII cases, especially Fiocchi! Cases were expensive, yet case life was poor. And, I found that the ones with small primer pockets (Fiocchi) didn't group as well.

For off the shelf cases, the best I found were Canadian made Dominion 455 Colt cases. The "455 Colt" is longer than the 45 ACP but shorter than the "Long" Colt. I'd have to check my notebook to recall the exact length.

Enjoy! They are great revolvers!

Jim
 
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I would bet that it's really tough to find Dominion loaded ammunition or even cases any more.

I've never tried to reload Fiocchi brass, but I had some case failures on the first firing of a couple of their Mk IIs. Maybe that was just a bad lot but it does make me think the case life would be very short indeed.

Here is a picture comparing the Mk I & Mk II, and highlighting Fiocchi's small pistol primers vs. Dominion's LPPs.
<Edited to add: ".455 Colt" is Colt's name for ".455 Webley Mk I">
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If anyone is interested, here is a website that has a good video about the .455 Webley Mark IV.
Webley MkIV .455 Revolver – The Armourers Bench

Yes, that's a good video. I enjoyed the English point of view on the history and design.
There were a bewildering number of makers and varieties of .450 to .455 caliber revolvers. Very often, they are a unique mix of the arcane and innovative.
 
First, thanks for all the good advice as I am not very experienced in reloading. Here are the issues I have with the .45 Schofield cases.
1. The slightly greater rim-thickness seems not to interfere with anything. I shortened the cases to 21 mm and made 6 cartridges without powder for testing. They fit perfectly and eject properly. But here comes the really interesting part: Various sources point out that early Mk IV more often than not differ from factory specs. The specs call for following dims:
.454 bullet diameter
13.5mm rim dia.
1.1mm rim thickness
20-21.5mm case length
Since I have a very early Mk IV (1899), I measured everything and:
My chamber throat measures .451
My bor is .449 at its widest
My chamber dia. is 12.25mm
and my chamber length is 25mm (!!)

so that means I have to make a completely custom cartridge. Using .45 Schofield cases, I need to shorten them to only 24mm (and still would have 1mm bullet jump), and use a lead bullet of .451 maximum (or even only .450). The slightly thicker rim, on the other hand, seems no problem to me (less than half millimeter). I do want to use .45 Schofield cases, though, simply because I have a plentiful supply of them.
 
... my chamber length is 25mm (!!)

... so that means I have to make a completely custom cartridge.
It's not a custom cartridge, I believe the revolver is chambered for .455 Webley Mark I. Of course it will also fire the Mk II version no problem.

British revolver cartridges from this era can be very confusing. If you are interested, here is an article full of excellent information.
Those Confusing .455s - International Ammunition Association
 
Great article. I have a fair number of those 450-455 cartridges.
My brother was a member of the CCCA (Canadian Cartridge Collectors Association). It's possible there might be some good info in the back issues of their journal.
I'll have a look.....
 

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