Best powders for M1A SOCOM

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David Sinko

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I am new to the M1A rifle and recently bought a new SOCOM 16. I was not aware of it at the time but these M1As with the 16" barrels have a redesigned gas port which is apparently necessary for proper functioning with the shorter 16" barrel. Some shooters are complaining of cycling problems while others have no problems at all. I do not buy any factory ammo and jumped into this project with my handloads. From the beginning I have experienced cycling problems with 150 gr. bullets and 48.0 grs. of BL-C(2), which is the maximum charge per my Hodgdon 2007 manual. I have been advised that these rifles function better with the faster powders and I planned to buy some IMR 3031 but my supplier had only H335. It appears that H335 will be a good candidate but I am also amazed by how charges of this powder have been watered down over the years. My '07 manual shows a max of 44.0 grs. with the 150 gr. bullet, but then a friend just gave me an early 70's Lyman manual that quotes a max charge of 50.5 grs.!

So, the question is, have the modern reloading manuals been watered down so much that even max published loads with the slower powders (in this case BL-C(2)) will not cycle properly in the redesigned gas port of the SOCOM rifles? I am not interested in hotrodding my loads; all I want is proper functioning with the short barrel. What are the best powders for these rifles? Does anybody have any specific PROVEN handloads for the SOCOM rifles? And finally, is military 7.62x51 ammo loaded significantly hotter than commercial .308?

Dave Sinko
 
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I am new to the M1A rifle and recently bought a new SOCOM 16. I was not aware of it at the time but these M1As with the 16" barrels have a redesigned gas port which is apparently necessary for proper functioning with the shorter 16" barrel. Some shooters are complaining of cycling problems while others have no problems at all. I do not buy any factory ammo and jumped into this project with my handloads. From the beginning I have experienced cycling problems with 150 gr. bullets and 48.0 grs. of BL-C(2), which is the maximum charge per my Hodgdon 2007 manual. I have been advised that these rifles function better with the faster powders and I planned to buy some IMR 3031 but my supplier had only H335. It appears that H335 will be a good candidate but I am also amazed by how charges of this powder have been watered down over the years. My '07 manual shows a max of 44.0 grs. with the 150 gr. bullet, but then a friend just gave me an early 70's Lyman manual that quotes a max charge of 50.5 grs.!

So, the question is, have the modern reloading manuals been watered down so much that even max published loads with the slower powders (in this case BL-C(2)) will not cycle properly in the redesigned gas port of the SOCOM rifles? I am not interested in hotrodding my loads; all I want is proper functioning with the short barrel. What are the best powders for these rifles? Does anybody have any specific PROVEN handloads for the SOCOM rifles? And finally, is military 7.62x51 ammo loaded significantly hotter than commercial .308?

Dave Sinko
 
The M1 is more prone to be problematic than the M14/M1A in regards gas port pressure. There are aftermarket gas port plugs for the M1 that bleed of gas pressure. The M14/M1A is more tolerant than the M1 rifle. The White designed gas system inspired the M14/M1a gas system which incorporates a gas cut of in the piston body and bleed in the housing body. The gas piston movement slaps the operating rod inducing movement in the M14/M1A system. The M1 is one unit and gas port sensitive which causes flexing of the operating rod.

That said I've used either IMR 4895 or 4064 other propellants of similar burn rate/pressure curve work also.
 
I have been posting on that forum but they do not have a specific handloading section. I have been told that the faster powders are a better choice but I was hoping for some specific loads and that some experienced reloaders on this forum could provide some more info.

The problem of bent op rods appears to manifest itself when bullets of 180 grs. or heavier are used. I have a hunch that I'll need to use the lighter bullets at slightly higher velocity and/or pressure to get proper cycling, all other factors being equal. Handloading for this rifle is a bit more puzzling than I had anticipated.

Dave Sinko
 
On my desk sets 7.62 MM Match XM 118 Lot LC 12010 Bullet 173Grs Velocity 2550-FPS 1963 Match. 175Gr and under with the proper propellant should no be problematic.
 
I've always had good luck with Varget or IMR 4064 in mine.
 
The million dollar question is "How many grains of the proper propellant?" Again, it is important to realize what works in the 22" barrel (or even the shorter Scout, for that matter) is likely NOT the optimum charge weight for the SOCOM. This seems to be the critical difference.

I had a chance to buy 8 lbs. of Varget but passed it over in favor of H355. I wasn't sure how it would burn in that 16" barrel.

I really like my SOCOM. It feeds all bullets with complete reliability, including those that are very short, light and of unconventional profile. But sometimes I don't get enough gas pressure to eject the fired cases. I'll probably have to bite the bullet and buy some surplus ammo and then break out the chrono for a more thorough comparison.

Dave Sinko
 
Originally posted by David Sinko:
The million dollar question is "How many grains of the proper propellant?" Again, it is important to realize what works in the 22" barrel (or even the shorter Scout, for that matter) is likely NOT the optimum charge weight for the SOCOM. This seems to be the critical difference.
Dave Sinko
Click to expand...

What effects the operation is the distance from the barrel gas port in respect to the chamber. If that distance is the same as a standard M14/M1A configuration then there should be no problem. The gas piston has a port that is in line with the barrels gas port. When the gas volume fills the cavity of the piston and cylinder housing the piston moves reward cutting of gas flow from the barrel gas port. Further movement allows gas to bleed to atmosphere as the piston uncovers the bleed port in the cylinder housing.

Also note the operating rod cam grooved surface allows movement of the operating rod to the rear before the cam groove inclined surface contact the roller cam on the bolt.

My opinion Varget, Reloader, IMR4895, and IMR 4064 are all good propellants but with the two IMR powders being the most satisfactory in the M14/M1A application.

In other words use a standard charge weight and work from there.
 
I've got 2 M1A's, a loaded standard model and a SOCOM II with extended rail. They're next on my list to start reloading for, so I'll be following this thread. You might want to check out the M14 Forum, they have an "Ammo Bunker" section which includes handloading:

http://www.m14tfl.com/upload/

Also check out different loading manuals. I know that my Hornady manual has sections specifically for the M1 and M14 service rifles.
 
I've had a Socom II for a few years now. It's digested nothing but my handloads using Varget and BLC-2.

All powder charges were on the lower end of the scale, and moving to mid scale.

Bullet weights were from 150 gr Hornady Interlocks to Hornady and Speer 168 gr BTHP's.

No problems whatsoevah!

BTW, the 150 gr interlocks produced patterns better suited for a shotgun. But hey...they functioned flawlessly
icon_smile.gif
 
The SOCOM models allegedly have a larger gas port which is supposed to generate proper gas pressure in the shorter barrel. The theory is that some loads which will cycle properly in the 22" barrel may not cycle properly or may be borderline in the 16" barrel.

What concerns me is that I have been having gas pressure type problems with BL-C(2) and 4064. I guess I'll continue to increase the powder charges slightly and see what happens.

Dave Sinko
 
I have a Socom II I use H335. My favorite load is 45 grains of H335 with the Speer 130 gr Hollow point bullet. Also I have a 18.5 and a 22 inch MIA this load works equally well in all three rifles. I think the problems/handicap of the 16" barrel are really not an issue in any way.
 
I really like 4198 in my .45-70 Guide Gun and I notice that it is a good powder for cast bullets in the .308 Winchester. I had assumed it is not the best choice for jacketed bullet loads in the .308.

Actually, I AM working on cast bullet loads for the M1A but I am getting sidetracked here. My goal was to first work up a jacketed bullet load that is both accurate and cycles properly. I have about 700 once fired cases that are waiting for the proper load once I find it. They will then be stored away. The next project will be developing a cast bullet load for cheap practice and USPSA Multigun competition, but the cast bullet loads are a different animal altogether.

Dave Sinko
 
OK, Duskykiller, I see your post and that you are also using H335 in a SOCOM. Are you using this powder with either 110 or 150 gr. bullets? I do not have any 130 gr. bullets.

I like the 16" barrel but that larger gas port seems to be causing my some problems, at least with some of the loads that I am using.

Dave Sinko
 
I don't know about the SOCOM version, but the original M-14 was designed to work around IMR-4895 powder. If I were you, I'd try it before anything else. IMR-4895 also goes through most powder measures quite consistently. IMR-3031 and IMR-4064 don't go through a measure worth a darn!
 
Sir, FWIW, my standard .308 loads are Sierra 168s and 175s over 41.0 to 41.5 grains of IMR 4895 in GI cases. These are typical match loads for .308 M1s and M14s. How well they'd work in a Socom I don't know, but they'd at least be a starting point. In my rifles, they clock around 2,550 fps.

GI 7.62 is loaded a bit lighter than most commecial .308. M80 ball is a 147-grain bullet at a nominal 2,800 fps from a 22-inch barrel. M118 and M852 use heavier bullets (173s and 168s respectively) at a nominal 2,550 fps. When you're looking at load data, start with loads in this same general range.

Regarding the cycling problems, I'm not sure a faster powder is the answer. I suspect it might make it worse. Was it me, I'd experiment with 4895. If you can't get the gun to function with that, I'd suspect a gun problem rather than a load problem.

Hope this helps, and Semper Fi.

Ron H.
 
Dave

I have used H335 with 110 bullets and several 150 bullets as well as 168 Match with no problem.
I prefer H335 in 308 over all other powders.

Many problems with MIA rifles are not being properly lubed. I purchased my Socom II used it came to me filthy. Once cleaned and lubed it has run 100%.
 
Originally posted by David Sinko:
The SOCOM models allegedly have a larger gas port which is supposed to generate proper gas pressure in the shorter barrel. The theory is that some loads which will cycle properly in the 22" barrel may not cycle properly or may be borderline in the 16" barrel.
Dave Sinko
Click to expand...
Is that the information from Springfield Armory concerning the gas port size or a supposition from the multitudes? If that’s the truth then the porting in the piston and the gas cylinder bleed off port would have to have been changed also.

One occurrence that can happen is the gas cylinder housing not being properly aligned with the gas port in the barrel. Is the gas port spindle on the gas cylinder housing fully open?
 
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